• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:

    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!

    2. Fourteen thousand people can't be wrong.

    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.

    4. See 1 through 3.

    Come on, register already!

Discussion of 2.16 "Epiphany" - Aired 2/27/2001 (WB-US)

Stake fodder

What about my me?
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
1,155
Location
Caught on a root
I agree with the above, about the fake-out at the beginning. I think it would have worked better if Angel went into his panic, then stopped and realized, "Oh wait, so is it not going to happen?" As he told the guru in 'Guise Will Be Guise,' the curse is not really about the sex.

I liked the parallel with Buffy's line, too. Though I felt like Darla felt it all a bit more than she should, knowing the previous ruthlessness of her character. I felt like she should ultimately shrug it off, once she left Angel.

"You've turned a corner. Yay, you! Zuzu's petals." Loved the allusion to "It's a Wonderful Life." I'm really enjoying Lorne/The Host this season.

I rolled my eyes at another impregnation of Cordelia. The three-eyed demons seemed a bit corny in an otherwise serious episode. Also, if they require a human host, they are not "self-replicating"! Finally, the head-rape of Cordelia was just rather disturbing. Like Cordy said about the virgin sacrifices, why is it always the woman? And from now on, Cordy, get payment in advance!

What was up with Redneck!Lindsey? The old farm truck, the wife-beater undershirt, and plaid coat? It was like he had come straight from the honky-tonk. And his hand got smashed. I never notice his fake hand till it's damaged in some way.

I wondered at the time how Angel got into Kate's. So, apparently The Powers that Be can make exceptions to the vampire rules when they want.

I like that the trio don't seem prepared to instantly forgive and forget with Angel. That tends to happen on BtVS, but it would be wrong on a show about redemption and atonement. Altogether, it was one of the better episodes of the season, I thought.
 

burrunjor

Scooby
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
724
Age
31
Just finished this one yesterday. Loved it.

I loved Angel trying to kiss up to his team, like the awkward small talk to Wesley about his stab wound, or desperately pointing out to Gunn that he saved Wes LOL. I think Cordelia was a bit hard to Angel if I'm honest. I mean I love Cordy and she has a right to pissed, but hey he did just save her life and clearly went through a lot of shit to do so. I'm amazed he never brought up that he saved the world to his gang. Maybe he did off screen. (If Spike had been there he would have brought it up for sure LMAO.)

Still their reactions were realistic. Cordy would be the most pissed as she has known him the longest, been through the most with him, suffered more as a result of knowing him like getting those agonizing visions. Wesley meanwhile is the most forgiving because he is very sensible, and looked up to Angel as a hero more. (I love the bit where he and Angel smile at each other in Wes's apartment. Shows you how ready Wes was to go back to the status quo.) Whilst Gunn gets his anger out at Angel right away, but after that he doesn't carry a grudge. He might be more volatile LOL, but he is also practical too and realises Angel is a great help. He and Angel's relationship has always been that to be honest, even in the first episode, when Gunn was extremely hostile to Angel because he is a vampire, but again once he saw he was good was practical enough to put that to the side.

I also loved the Darla and Lindsey scenes because it showed you how sadly deluded Lindsey was. You almost feel sorry for him, as he thinks at the very least he and Darla have a connection, so much so he is happy to stay in the same room as her and even get angry with her when he finds out what happened. You wouldn't think just two weeks ago, he and a room full of 15 people had been at the mercy of her and Dru on their own!

In the previous episode when she was on his couch you could at least say he was looking after her because he thought she was weak, but now he knows she could tear him to pieces yet he still isn't scared. It's like having a tiger in your room and hoping it just won't eat you. Not once does "hey this woman could overpower me and 15 others no problem, better not piss her off, or better get out of here!" Even cross his mind.

At the same time however the fact that she just leaves him at the end ironically could be seen as the nicest thing she has ever done for anyone without a soul. Really when you think about it, she could have just eaten him, or tortured him and used his love for her as a weapon of torture. Don't say Darla wouldn't do that normally. Look at how she treats Cordy who is nice to her the next season. As soon as they are alone, she goes for her throat.

Her leaving Lindsey could be interpreted two ways. Either she did care for him, but knew it would never work and rather than torture him any longer with false, she packed up and left, which again for a soulless vampire is an extreme act of kindness and mercy. Or she thought he just didn't matter enough to bite, which is the biggest insult to Lindsey imaginable. Either way not knowing will probably torture him for the rest of his life which again almost makes you feel sorry for him.
 
Antho
Antho
You give me envy to rewatch that episode
Joined
Mar 5, 2022
Messages
59
Age
34
Location
Michigan
I know the pain and agony was supposed to be a cop-out to make us believe he would turn into Angelus again, but I always took it as him having an actual epiphany. The whole point of his curse is for him to suffer. He's not supposed to have true happiness. When he sets Darla and Drusilla on fire, Darla even says something along the lines of him not being Angelus, but he's not Angel either. I think he's somewhere in between, but definitely a lot darker, which to me, doesn't exactly put him in the realm of suffering for his past sins as Angelus.

I think he's in such a dark place that it's easier for him to be angry and shut out almost every other emotion, and obviously the people who kept him grounded and feeling most human. Darla is the last straw, the breaking point, and I've always took his epiphany as his curse being like hey, time for you to get back to your suffering. If he just stayed in this weird void place forever, he's not really evil, not really good, just kind of existing, and that's not the point of his curse.

We saw his eyes light up at the end of the previous episode - which again, possible cop-out - but I always kind of took that moment as his soul kind of kicking back in. Like he had it, but he was just ignoring his emotions, ignoring everything aside from what he wanted, and that's not what the curse was meant for.
 
Top Bottom