• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:

    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!

    2. Fourteen thousand people can't be wrong.

    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.

    4. See 1 through 3.

    Come on, register already!

SoS Willow: If not magic addiction - then what?

Taake

Under the sea
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
18,331
Age
37
Location
Stockholm, Swe
Black Thorn
Generally the magic-abuse of season 6 seems to be one of those storylines that it a bit ham-handed and too on the nose for fans to really love it. (If you do love it, please tell us!)

But, say we remove this plotline for Willow - what could it be replaced with? What conflict or drama could you see the character go through? Or would you keep the magic-plot and just change how it was told?

Without magic-addiction could you see the Dark Willow arc happen?
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
11,419
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
Maybe high-light that Willow's magical misuse is a core flaw of her personality from S3 onward; she has an emotional problem and tries to fix it with magic; whether that's unwanted feeling (feeling useless, being in love, being sad) or need for vengeance or carelessly summoning a troll because she got into a heated argument during the friggin' casting.

The addiction-thing always felt like a cop-out because it didn't really address Willow's true character flaw, it just kinda skirted around her arrogance, her emotional immaturity and her need for control. In S6 she took things too far, first with the Resurrection spell (or, specifically, the way she went about it) and then with memory wiping/mind violation/entirety of Wrecked.
Dark Willow is just Willow going full-on vengeance-mode, like had already been established when she went after Glory in 'Tough Love' but more so.

All that S6 needed was to escalate a little from what came before. You could still use Rack and his corrupt misuse of magic, but instead introduce him more organically. An early MotW episode means that the gang have to search him out for info (about a demon summoning, spell misuse, whatever) and that's how Willow meets him at first. She is drawn to how he uses magic (because she's always been intellectually curious) and in a later episode returns on her own and sees how he uses spells and how good/powerful magic user he is. Drops the 'junkie flophouse' angle and focus on him being a powerful let creepy warlock who highlights the mastery that magic can bring; a freedom from want and responsibility.
The Willow goes too far, hurts some people (both deliberately and not ala Tabula Rasa) and/or finds out some horrific truth about Rack's use of magic/the source of his power and swears off its use; either in an existential crisis kinda way (who even am I without the magicks?') or simply because her life (and the lives of her friends) is falling apart and this is her (somewhat simplistic) solution (cut the bad out of my life).

Seems like a much better way of illustrating the pitfalls of young adulthood; thinking you know it all but still screwing up like your parents did, but without the after-school special feel that Willow's arc otherwise has. I always thought that her 'magical addition' feels like Beer Bad only polished up and spread over multiple episodes as a subplot.
 

nightshade

Your grandfather is a cat
Staff member
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
13,966
Location
England
Black Thorn
I think dropping the Amy part of season 6, would've helped to develop the story smoother, you've already seen her do the resurrection spell and use too much magic, bringing Amy in, just gave someone to blame for her going darker, when she was already on that path.
 

Skanky Vamp

Sniffin' the Slayer
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
25,249
Black Thorn
There was nothing with with the magical addiction plot. The problem is equating magic to drugs. It would have fit the story and character background more had it been magic equals power and Willow is addicted to the power. It would play into her personality quirks, as mentioned above, and wouldn't seem as After School Special. Plus it would be an interesting dichotomy between her and Buffy: Willow wants and craves the power and becomes addicted, Buffy is gifted power and it becomes a burden.
 

NotASlayer

Townie
Joined
Mar 3, 2023
Messages
92
I find this an interesting way of Willow going too far, one that doesn't involve the awful magic addiction idea (which seemed irrelevant to the whole Dark Willow thing anyway). She goes off the deep end right at the beginning of the season when Giles challenges her. north star
 
Last edited:

Cohen

Hellhound
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
3,260
Location
Neptune, California
Sineya
They should have made Willow go dark earlier in the season. We spend 3 episodes following literally one night of Dark Willow. This is why I love the Dark Willow Trilogy books… because we see what kind of mayhem Willow could bring as a true Big Bad.
 

Taake

Under the sea
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
18,331
Age
37
Location
Stockholm, Swe
Black Thorn
They should have made Willow go dark earlier in the season. We spend 3 episodes following literally one night of Dark Willow. This is why I love the Dark Willow Trilogy books… because we see what kind of mayhem Willow could bring as a true Big Bad.

Tell me more, I thought they were just novelizations of those three episodes!
 

Cohen

Hellhound
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
3,260
Location
Neptune, California
Sineya
Tell me more, I thought they were just novelizations of those three episodes!
Oh no!! It starts off in the moments after “villains,” does a hot alt take of “two to go/grave” and then continues the narrative of Willow gathering power (and a coven!) in Sunnydale. Actually it would have been a much better season 7 than we got.
 

Taake

Under the sea
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
18,331
Age
37
Location
Stockholm, Swe
Black Thorn
Oh no!! It starts off in the moments after “villains,” does a hot alt take of “two to go/grave” and then continues the narrative of Willow gathering power (and a coven!) in Sunnydale. Actually it would have been a much better season 7 than we got.

Cool! I avoided getting them because I assumed it was just the eps, now I might have to try to get hold of these! Thanks 😊
 

Cohen

Hellhound
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
3,260
Location
Neptune, California
Sineya
Highly recommend. There's some good stuff in there, and alternate versions of characters from the past show up. I love them!
 

Bop

Scooby
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
3,669
Age
23
Sineya
I think they just put too much emphasis on the magic being the problem over Willow being the problem when it's clear from season 3 onwards that Willow used magic as an easy fix to control people or the situation around her and I think if Willow couldn't have magic she would have found a different avenue to get what she wants because she'd still have the same insecurities, jealousy, possessiveness and whatever else motivated her to not respect boundaries with magic. I think exploring what is motivating Willow to do the things she did in season 6 would have been so much more interesting than what we got and it would have made the arc smoother because then you could look back at the previous seasons and see a connection whereas it feels like they don't want people to look back at all because then Willow's plot in season 6 looks clunky.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
2,692
Age
41
Gunn basically had a magic addiction storyline in Season 5, and nobody complains about that storyline. I agree, the problem is, it does come off as a ham fisted after school special about drug addiction. Like, using magic to get high is just sloppy writing.
 
Bop
Bop
I've seen complaints about that Gunn storyline
thetopher
thetopher
Gunn's 'enhanced lawyer brain' is more 'Superpowered then depowered Riley' done right.

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
1,880
Age
41
Generally the magic-abuse of season 6 seems to be one of those storylines that it a bit ham-handed and too on the nose for fans to really love it. (If you do love it, please tell us!)

But, say we remove this plotline for Willow - what could it be replaced with? What conflict or drama could you see the character go through? Or would you keep the magic-plot and just change how it was told?

Without magic-addiction could you see the Dark Willow arc happen?

What it should've been. Due to Willows on insecurities and desire for more power
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
3,680
Location
Manchester
It would have fit the story and character background more had it been magic equals power and Willow is addicted to the power.
That's how I've always read it - she's addicted to power not magic per se. Power is why Kennedy is attracted to her.
 

Hunga Munga

Scooby
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Messages
1,167
Age
53
In the Buffyverse it's often about power . ;)

The 'magic as drugs' thing is just too on the nose for my tastes . I think just using 'terrible magic comes at a terrible price' would have been a more elegant way to send Willow spiraling . The narrative was already well primed for that.
 

garfan

Potential
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
163
Age
43
What it should've been. Due to Willows on insecurities and desire for more power

without season 6 people wouldn't see Willow as wanting more power

that was the only season she ever had more magical power than was needed for the threat
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
2,692
Age
41
Re: Gunn: It can both, because it's not a one to one comparison, you can see an addict on performance enhancing drugs begging for his next hit, you can also see a desperate man not wanting to lose his position, and unwittingly agreeing to pay a high price. And because the story doesn't involve vampire whores and demon pimps, the symbolism becomes the compromises we make for success and power, and can be applied to multiple situations, and not whatever Rack was supposed to be.
 

ILLYRIAN

Druish Pervonian Wizard
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
10,606
Age
67
Location
Toodyay
Black Thorn
Here we go again, that same claim that because Willow was addicted to magic, no mention that Willow could perform magic by thought unlike Tara who used spell magic. In the amount of time that Tara took to perform her spell magic Willow may easily have had twenty thoughts so obviously she was addicted _ not!

If a person was to keep a loaf of bread in the pantry and would make a sandwich for him/her self a couple or several times a day, does that make the person addicted to bread?
 

garfan

Potential
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
163
Age
43
my Willow story arc? She has to deal with a mentor and a girlfriend both questioning her every move and prove to them there's no such thing as to much magic.
 
T
thrasherpix
I do wish they went more into the why the rules for magic suddenly took a retc, er turn, for plot contri, er, convenience. I can even imagine reasons Tara would give for it, but that didn't go for the bad feels they wanted this season.

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
11,419
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
If a person was to keep a loaf of bread in the pantry and would make a sandwich for him/her self a couple or several times a day, does that make the person addicted to bread?

Well, if they got wide-eyed and sweaty and jonesing if denied a sandwich for a couple of days then I'd say absolutely they're addicted to carbs (being addicted to carbs is a thing that exists btw, especially since ultra-processed carbs are made to be addictive).

It's not a question of I can just get by with a sandwich a day, its a question of 'I have to have that sandwich every day'; that's what makes someone an addict.
If somebody has to have a glass of wine to get through their day- just one glass- then they have a dependence/addiction; clinically speaking.

Same with Willow, she struggled not to do magic, hence she's an 'addict'.
 
Top Bottom