Discussion of Angel 11.11 - Released 11/22/17 (Dark Horse)

[Priceless]

Preview for issue #12 . . . any idea what Angel has bought with him through time and what he may have to give up?? And why has Fred's modesty come into play?

 

[Grace]

He took Kathy’s ring, right? Or something like that?
 
If you look at that first panel, looks like something happens to Fred’s clothes.
 
Oh! I bet Fred has to give up her clothes because she got them on the ship in the past.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Hmm so they theory is they need to give up what they brought with them and that is what is screwing with the future?

Sounds a little odd. Also so much for Illyria’s “goodbye Angel” lol.

 

[TriBel]

He took Kathy’s ring, right? Or something like that?

Did he take Kathy's ring? It needn't be an object. We all have repressed memories we carry with us that determine our actions. Accessing these memories can radically change our future - at least by giving us options we didn't think were available to us. It's why people throw good money at therapists. Think Spike in LMPTM - it wasn't just the First's influence he overcame - it was his own patterns of behaviour. Coming to terms with his siring/staking of his demon mother and what she said brought down yet another barrier between him and Buffy. I still think Angel's problem is something he's repressed about Kathy and/or his father.

 

[Grace]

From #10.

 

[Priceless]

As Illyria says, Angel looks a bit hesitant. Does anyone think he won't give up the ring?

 

[Grace]

As Illyria says, Angel looks a bit hesitant. Does anyone think he won't give up the ring?

It would certainly be more interesting if he didn't! Especially if, for once, Angel could find a way to keep the thing he wants *and* save the world, instead of always giving it up. But the comics seem to prefer Angel in a holding pattern, so I'm not expecting much. I could easily see Angel resisting and then being talked into it. He has a great memory -- he doesn't really need to hold onto anything physical to remember Kathy. The bigger deal would be if they find a way to fix it so that their trip to the past never happened, which would be giving up the more recent memories of her entirely, in addition to the ring.

 

[Grace]

"It is enough that it was making Fred uncomfortable." / "This is new." / "We have achieved a certain sympathy. You do not need to understand it."

What do you make of this exchange? I feel like if Illyria and Fred are now this in sync (and, it seems, protective in a way), then Fred couldn't have been too uncomfortable during the Illangel kiss (or whatever happened at the end of #10). But does this not bode well for thrupledom if Angel doesn't need to understand it? 😉

Does anyone think there will be a big change for Illyria/Fred next issue? Do you think Illyria would ever leave Fred's body? Is that even technically possible?

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Does anyone think there will be a big change for Illyria/Fred next issue? Do you think Illyria would ever leave Fred's body? Is that even technically possible?

Idk if you listened to the review video I posted but he mentioned that it would be cool if having two Freds/Illyrias would give us the ability to finally split up the two? Now that we have two bodies available. So that is one possible change. Although I don’t think the journey this season is pushing us towards separation but towards symbiosis. They seem to be slowly becoming one. So it makes less sense to split them up now.

I feel like they are going to have to choose who has a great reveal next issue, Angel or Illyria. I selfishly hope Angel just because I find that idea more fun. But perhaps Illyria and her transformation is the key to all of this?

 

[Grace]

Idk if you listened to the review video I posted but he mentioned that it would be cool if having two Freds/Illyrias would give us the ability to finally split up the two? Now that we have two bodies available. So that is one possible change. Although I don’t think the journey this season is pushing us towards separation but towards symbiosis. They seem to be slowly becoming one. So it makes less sense to split them up now.

I listened to most of it but I either missed that or forgot. Would they be allowed to keep a body and not keep clothes/a ring? 🙂 Actually, that makes the clothes/ring stuff make less sense, now that I think about it... Even if they give up all the physical objects from the past, how can they give up themselves? Unless, again, they undo the whole thing. I'm confusing myself now...

I totally agree with you that it seems like Fred and Illyria have been moving closer to becoming one than to splitting. But I guess it's possible that their closeness could give Illyria the understanding of Fred that she needs to want to allow Fred to live on her own again. Hmmm....

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Unless, again, they undo the whole thing. I'm confusing myself now...

Because. Time travel.

 

[Grace]

Because. Time travel.

Siiiiigh. I think I'm going to try to reread the season before next Wednesday. And take notes this time! 🙂 If changing time makes the flower meaner and unchanging time makes the flower deader, then why did the flower start to grow at aaaaall...?

 

[Mrs Gordo]

You know, correct me if I'm wrong and I hope I am, but I follow Dark Horse on Twitter and they have never advertised Angel since I have followed them. They advertise Buffy but not the Angel title. I just went over to look through their feed and I didn't see anything. There isn't really even a hashtag for #AngelComics that produces any hits from the last few years. They aren't really doing any marketing for this title.

 

[Grace]

You know, correct me if I'm wrong and I hope I am, but I follow Dark Horse on Twitter and they have never advertised Angel since I have followed them. They advertise Buffy but not the Angel title. I just went over to look through their feed and I didn't see anything. There isn't really even a hashtag for #AngelComics that produces any hits from the last few years. They aren't really doing any marketing for this title.

I just saw on That One Forum that Angel sales dipped below 6,000 in November. Ouch. But my reread of the season is only confirming for me that it's been hot garbage.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

hot garbage.

LOLOL... but also 🙁

 

[Grace]

OK, here are some lingering questions (other than the big time travel ones that are super confusing):

• What was Angel referring to in #1 when he told Illyria he hadn't told her everything?
• Who was the friend who Angel was originally doing the favor for? The one who owned the hotel in Dublin who paid for Angel and Fred's trip to get rid of the poltergeists? Did s/he have something to do with this whole thing?
• What happens to Arev, the demon dating Lavinia because they changed the past?
• Do they still have the scrying mirror? Do they have to put it back?
• Since the beetle wasn't lost at sea in the past, is that affecting anything?

On the time travel stuff, Illyria says in #11 that the original Fred/Illyria and Angel have to take the trip back in time because if they don't it will create a paradox. But the Fred and Angel of the present they came back to are already acting differently than the Angel and Fred we've been traveling with did. So isn't that already a paradox? Even if they ultimately do take the trip, that Fred and Angel will have memories that our Fred and Angel don't have, even if it's just a short amount of time. They're already not the same people.

From #11:

From #1:

Of course, in #1, we have a wee little flower they're talking about and in #11, there's a very angry flower. But it wasn't clear to me if the Fred and Angel in the alley in #11 are seeing it.

Also, in #1, Illyria was the one who made the impulsive decision to transport them to the past without really knowing what was going on. So the whole thing could be her fault, if they weren't supposed to travel? (I guess that's why she got so upset in this issue, though I didn't quite realize it.)

Also, any other guesses on what Angel's original vision might mean?

I still think the last image is Kathy. But I'm not really any clearer on what the rest of it means!

We'll find out soon!

 

[thetopher]

...Angel and Fred fight the monster from the little shop of horrors. That's it. There's some stuff about Angel being awkward with Fred and with Illyria and Illyria saying she makes everything worse and refuses to help (what even is this character anymore? Emo-Old One? 'You mortals just don't get me I'm going to go and listen to Evanescence!'

I read 11 and 12 back-to-back so I'd say most of what I have to say there.