XanderesqueMan
Potential
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2026
- Messages
- 206
- Age
- 42
My first thread. I better make it good.
This is just something I was thinking about (and likely will express in far too many words), but I was considering the differences between Angel and Spike and their journey to become heroes, and I was wondering what everyone thought. Was Spike actually a hero? Now, don't get me wrong. I love Spike as a character, and I thoroughly enjoyed watching him go from the villain in "School Hard" to the Slayer's ally he would become over the course of several seasons (and stages in his life.) I acknowledge that he does good, but is he a hero? Hear me out.
Angel spent about a hundred years on the shores of America, suffering with the guilt and pain of what Angelus had done, doing good where he could, occasionally making mistakes, but trying to be the best person he could, isolating himself from humanity for their own protection. As he would later tell Buffy, "You have no idea what it's like to have done the things I've done and care."
When he was approached by Whistler, who was the first person to tell him he might be able to use his curse to help others, and shown the Slayer, a young girl who could use his help, Angel committed to becoming better, to doing active good in the world. He does it because he believes it is the right thing to do and because he thinks that it's a way to make up for what Angelus has done, out of guilt and morality.
I would argue that, in contrast, Spike's turn to goodness is not motivated by morality or a desire to do what's right at all. It begins when he is unable to feed on humans, forcing him to hide out with the Scooby Gang, then progresses when he discovers the only violence he can still do is against other demons, at which point helping them is an act of selfishness. Eventually, he realizes he's in love with Buffy, and from then on, he tries to do good because it's what she would want him to do, not because it's good.
And this is consistent with who Spike has always been. He catered to his mother's wishes. Cecily was his whole world. He became a monster to please Angelus and Drusilla. His personality has always been one of service, molding himself to be what the people he loves want him to be (or what he imagines they want him to be.) I don't think this ever really changes. I think everything he does is for Buffy directly or because he knows it's what she would want him to do or be. I'm not suggesting that him loving her enough to do that isn't worth respect, but does it make him heroic?
Discuss, people. 🙂
This is just something I was thinking about (and likely will express in far too many words), but I was considering the differences between Angel and Spike and their journey to become heroes, and I was wondering what everyone thought. Was Spike actually a hero? Now, don't get me wrong. I love Spike as a character, and I thoroughly enjoyed watching him go from the villain in "School Hard" to the Slayer's ally he would become over the course of several seasons (and stages in his life.) I acknowledge that he does good, but is he a hero? Hear me out.
Angel spent about a hundred years on the shores of America, suffering with the guilt and pain of what Angelus had done, doing good where he could, occasionally making mistakes, but trying to be the best person he could, isolating himself from humanity for their own protection. As he would later tell Buffy, "You have no idea what it's like to have done the things I've done and care."
When he was approached by Whistler, who was the first person to tell him he might be able to use his curse to help others, and shown the Slayer, a young girl who could use his help, Angel committed to becoming better, to doing active good in the world. He does it because he believes it is the right thing to do and because he thinks that it's a way to make up for what Angelus has done, out of guilt and morality.
I would argue that, in contrast, Spike's turn to goodness is not motivated by morality or a desire to do what's right at all. It begins when he is unable to feed on humans, forcing him to hide out with the Scooby Gang, then progresses when he discovers the only violence he can still do is against other demons, at which point helping them is an act of selfishness. Eventually, he realizes he's in love with Buffy, and from then on, he tries to do good because it's what she would want him to do, not because it's good.
And this is consistent with who Spike has always been. He catered to his mother's wishes. Cecily was his whole world. He became a monster to please Angelus and Drusilla. His personality has always been one of service, molding himself to be what the people he loves want him to be (or what he imagines they want him to be.) I don't think this ever really changes. I think everything he does is for Buffy directly or because he knows it's what she would want him to do or be. I'm not suggesting that him loving her enough to do that isn't worth respect, but does it make him heroic?
Discuss, people. 🙂
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I agree 100 with all you've said here.
