Did Angel leaving make BTVS a better or worse show?

[Dogs of Winter]

S2 + S3 are my favourite seasons and Angel definitely contributed to that - I liked him, liked Bangel and loved Angelus. But a lot of the time in S3 his only role was to be Buffy's boyfriend and he didn't interact with the rest of the group that much so I think his role on the show was played out and it was time for him to leave.
It gave Buffy the show a chance to move on and it definitely gave Angel the character a chance to grow and develop into a much more interesting character that he wouldn't have got if he stayed on Buffy

ANGEL USA ratings by season :
1 : 4,8
2 : 4,2
3 : 4,2
4 : 3,65
5 : 3,97

That's interesting. Buffy gets so much more attention than Angel I always assumed its ratings were 2 or 3 times higher, but they are only about 5% higher each year

So Spike did pull the ratings in for Ats but when the audience found out he was just the ghost who did the scene per week they dropped off

If you are basing that on Conviction I think that was more to do with it being the first ep of the season. The season premiere was always either first or in the top 3 most viewed eps of every season

 

[Nearwild]

I don't know if his leaving made it better, but him staying definitely would have made it worse. I'm about halfway through S3 now and despite vowing to fly the flag for Bangel during this rewatch, I'm getting really bored of it now. If he had stayed, it would've been more of the same, 'we can / we can't' drama, and it feels very tired and played out already. I'm not a fan of first love forever at 16 storylines anyway, and I think if he'd stayed it would've cheated Buffy, (and also Angel) out of a lot of development. There's only so much you can do within an established relationship in a series, and the only way he could've stayed on is if he'd done an Oz and gone off to 'cure' his problem, but then Buffy would be left waiting for him or there would have to be a love triangle, and that would also be boring.

 

[BuffyBot22]

Everyone keeps saying Angel the character and Bangel the love story had no where else to go post s3. I just don't think that's true.
BtVS could have explored Angel the character- given more of his back story. It wouldn't be as in depth as he got on his show, but they most definitely could have explored his character more.
Some sort of Darla/Angel arc could still happen. So could a Spuffy storyline. The writer's just would have had to have gotten more creative to make those storylines happen and to make sure Buffy being a vampire slayer/hero/saver of the world still stayed front and center to the major theme/premise of the show.

 

[Mott1]

When Angel left the show, was that good or bad for BTVS?

Good question! Probably good for the show... it could be argued even in s3 Angel was a little surplus to requirements, as iconic as Gellar & Boreanaz are on-screen together, as the Mayor and Faith (and even Mr Trick) grab a lot of the attention). Amends, perhaps the show's most moving episode, is a peak into their being together in a fairer world, but for me it's the last gasp for the couple - the prom night, tho' a beautiful moment, always feels like they know it's already over.

Just as Angelus needed to appear in BtvS to bring the show up to a new level I think the character needed to have his own show to explore his more 'masculine' side, and to truly attempt redemption by leaving Buffy behind. I also think the parent show was able to move into a more light-hearted direction in s4 with Spike as his unlikely replacement as (cough) 'ally', and then when college was done Buffy and the others had to face adulthood, with all its attendant pains. This would have been difficult if the character had stayed, it would have been endless 'will they, won't they' questions and the couple might even have settled down or become boring. The audience would have grown but the show might not have.

Like Peter Gabriel leaving Genesis or Robbie Williams leaving Take That it worked out well for both parties, in the end!

 

[Dora]

Yes I think he had to go, just wish we had kept Cordelia, I think Spike was the wrong choice ( probably fan driven ) being a vampire as it is limited story arch , kill Buffy, chip Spike ,stalking Buffy, abusing Buffy ( Buffy had to come back wrong ) , and in the end just to keep him in the story they basically made him Angel a souled vampire , never understood why Buffy after Riley could not have dated more regular guy's ,a policeman , fireman, something with a story line outside demons and Spike

 

[WILLOW2022]

I think a better show beaucous Angel whas taking Buffy of her work. And to mutch kissing les action.

 

[MyBoyClem]

When Angel left the show, was that good or bad for BTVS?

I didn’t get the attraction with Angel and was never particularly drawn in to the storylines he was involved in. I think DB was really quite wooden throughout the first three seasons of Buffy. That said, I do like the high school seasons of Buffy. Partly from a nostalgic perspective I think, since I too was in high school when they were on TV. I think Spike draws the viewer in more and is a far more developed and sympathetic character than Angel and he stole the show in some of the later season episodes.

 

[Kendar]

I think this fixation on the number of viewers of various episodes gets things reversed - a better episode may make for more viewers but more viewers do not make for a better episode. The viewers tune into a show and get marked as viewers in certain electronically-conducted polls before they watch it - the number of viewers is more a gauge of how anticipated the episode is rather than whether it is any good. And how can anyone say the episode was bad if they didn't watch it? I also don't get the large variation in numbers in these polls - do hundreds of thousands of people only watch some episodes and not others?

Casual viewers. And people have life ^^. They work, they get out with friends, they see the family…In France Buffy was programmed the Saturday Night. I wasn’t every week end the Saturday night in front of the TV.

Also important to remember that DVRs, TIVOs, etc. were just starting to pick up use at that time. Ratings back then were effectively non-existent when it came to tracking who watched something delayed. We got our first TIVO around that time so Buffy and Angel were recorded and watched later.

 

[VisionGuy]

I don't think Angel leaving hurt the show. However, he was at his most interesting the second half of season 3. It's such a shame it took the writers that long to actually figure out what to do with his character.

 

[Paulrina]

A bit both
Season 4 is my personal favorite season.And Angel is not in it (He was a guest for 2 episodes).

Season 5 is my second favorite still Angel is not in it.

Season 1 is my favorite third season.And Angel has a recurring role.

Season 3 is my fourth favorite season which Angel is in.

Season 2 is my favorite fifth season which is Angel still in it.

Last 2 seasons are my least favorite seasons and Angel is not in it.

Angel leaving the show does not made show bad.But Seasons He is in has a special place in my(and many people's too) heart.Its complicated.

 

[famicommander]

Angel leaving made Buffy much more of her own character. I don't want to see her sitting around pouting after a guy who doesn't deserve her to begin with.

 

[nmcil12]

I much preferred the series after Angel departed but I would have to say that the seasons that featured him do not equate with a bad series. I was a much older viewer than the targeted teen and young adult viewer and the later seasons had a much higher interest level. In fact season 6 and 7 were by far my favorites.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

I don't think that Angel leaving the show hurt the show, a lot of people love seasons 5 and 6. I do think that him leaving shifted the focus of the show, and season four had suffered finding its new footing. Riley didn't really work out. I do think that Angel on his own show is still a good character, but he evolves along the way, and learns that he doesn't have to live alone in the shadows.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Better. Better he was there. Better that he left when he left.

Yes, even though I am a total Spuffy fan. It simply would not have been as interesting, had he not been there. He was a very dynamic character. Why do you think he got his own show? (I actually started following Angel the series before I watched Buffy seriously) Ats is why I started following what i initially thought of as 90210 with vampires.

And no, I don't think it hurt the show when he left. It was the perfect change point, and although 4 is the weakest season, it is also a pivot point that allows the show to transition from high school show to adult series. And we got Angel the series, which I loved. (Seaons 1-3 anyway)

 

[Plasma]

I would say it made the show better.

Over the course of three seasons, Buffy and Angel had gone through pretty much everything they could. He was loving, turned evil, got resurrected, was kind of insane for awhile, then regained his heroic nature. If Buffy was ever going to have a future, it would have been without Angel. Their relationship had simply run its course, and it definitely felt like being on Buffy was pigeonholing Boreanaz and preventing him from doing more with the character. His departure allowed the character to grow into his own as well as left a status-quo void in Buffy that became one of the stronger elements of Season 4.

Essentially, it felt like the show became too comfortable in its ways, and would have resisted change if Angel would have stayed. Though Season 4 has its growing pains, S5 onward are massive improvements that wouldn’t have been possible if Angel was still around.

It also allowed Spike to come back into the fray and that is a great thing in my book! 😀

 

[RachM]

While I don't think Angel leaving made the show worse, I do very much prefer the high school seasons to the post-high school seasons (with the exception of Season 5). This is due to many factors, and I will admit, I much prefer Cordy and Angel in the Scoobies dynamic than their replacements, Anya and Spike. But overall, while I think the show suffered after the high school seasons for varying reasons, I don't think Angel's absence was one of those. As others have pointed out, the Bangel ship had run its course by that point, and unless something drastic happened (like Angel turning human) there wasn't much more mileage they could have gotten out of his character or the ship.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

If the big, strong Angel had stayed, it would have been harder for Buffy to be the alpha she became, especially if they were in a relationship of any kind. Buffy could be alpha around him later, because she would have built her confidence without deferring to him AND Giles.

 

[r2dh2]

If the big, strong Angel had stayed, it would have been harder for Buffy to be the alpha she became, especially if they were in a relationship of any kind. Buffy could be alpha around him later, because she would have built her confidence without deferring to him AND Giles.

Agree. I'm re-watching season 2 these days and the transformation of Angel makes Buffy very self-reliant and pushes her to grow a lot. I've always felt that in S3, she regresses a bit into the dynamic of running to Angel at times. Having him gone for good, it's clearly a pivotal point in Buffy's personal growth. She definitely becomes a stronger woman. I do miss a bit of her naivete and sweetness in the later seasons, but she grows to be great woman and it does reflect how life makes us different.

 

[janas]

I love ATS and Angel is my favorite character, plus I'm Bangel and seeing Angel disappear into the fog was a very sad scene for me. Paradoxically, however, with Angel's departure, Bangel has become even more epic and each Angel's return has become a precious moment, well at least for Buffy.

I love the first three seasons, after Angel nothing was the same as before. It wasn't just him, it was missing Cordelia, it was missing the library, it was missing Buffy's house. In short, for me, after Angel BTVS has become something else.

On the other hand, I got 5 wonderful seasons with Angel as the protagonist. As for the Bangel, the writers reassured us, with cross-overs or various quotes, that although Buffy and Angel were divided, despite the various passing loves of both, Buffy and Angel did not stop loving each other.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Neither. Buffy was a good show before and after Angel left. Angel served his purpose on the show. If he had stayed on longer as a cast member, he'd have just been reduced to his continued role as Buffy's boyfriend and sidekick. His character as more interesting than that. It was a good move to give him his own spinoff.