Discussion of 4.17 "Superstar" - Aired 4/04/00 (WB-US)

This episode is probably my least favorite, partly because it felt like someone put some sort of gap in the storyline (by gap, I mean this episode)
But it did have one or two scenes that I liked.
 
One thing which gets overlooked in this episode is how good Danny Strong's performance is. He plays both sides of the Jonathan character so well. To see him revert back to the baggy shy guy at the end having been very smooth and sinister throughout was a great trick by him. They should have kept him for the final season instead of Tom Lenk.

I get why people hate this episode. It does run out of steam a bit in the middle and the concept like with how they introduced Dawn in S5 asking a bit much of the viewer to take on board, but I do like when the show throws the pieces up in the air and does something totally left field for an one off episode. I like the level of detail they go into like him starring in the Matrix😀 Its a mid-range S4 episode, far from the best, but certainly far from the worse either.
 
I think this was a good episode. Not the season's best but for me pretty close to it. I like the character of Jonathan and think he deserved to become a hero at the end of the show, it sucks that they killed him off just before Andrew himself got the chance to hang out with the Scoobies. It would have been funny to see them trying to redeem themselves for being part of the Trio and just bothering the piss out of Buffy and Co. for the remainder of Season 7. IMO tho Buffy should have at least asked Jonathan to come sit with them at the end of this episode.

Plus Danny Strong's performance was great - how he was able to convince me he was the coolest guy in the world after we'd already seen for two seasons that he wasn't is quite an accomplishment. And in S7's "First Date" where he played the First Evil as Jonathan, that was a creepy bit of acting, again didn't feel like Jonathan at all -- and that was the point.
 
Buffy patrolling, just like old times 🙂

That's quite an orgy...

Johnathan 😱

Lots of Johnathan in the intro...

Anya can't open a milk carton ??? 😵

Johnathan seems to have traits that don't match Johnathan...

Buffy shouldn't worry, she does her best 🙂

How did Johnathan get so much info about vamps ??? 😵

Betty ??? 😡

Something is off here...

Tara, you should meet Buffy again 🙂

Riley is confused about everything 🙁

Faith=acid bomb ???

Johnathan is famous, must have something to do with magic...

Johnathan is in the initiative 😱

Beware of stalkers...

Anya, you moaned...

and he can sing too 😀

and play the trumpet...

Adam=evil Messiah guy ???

Adam knows that all those stuff about Johnathan are lies 🙂

He's got a threesome with tall, Swedish twins...

At least Tara got to see Buffy 🙂

Stop hurting Tara 🙁

Poor Tara 🙁

Anya, don't kick her away...

Too perfect isn't good either...

A world with nothing but shrimp is not a world a vegetarian would want to live in...

Everyone should listen to Buffy...

Anya 😡

Johnathan is creeping me out...

Spike, shut up 😡

Riley, the spells work only when you know what you are doing...

Xander, don't speak Latin next to the books 😛

Giles, I think she can do it...

The world is back to normal...

At least Buffy's approaching Johnathan 🙂

Poor Johnathan 🙁

Next time: Buffy and Riley can't stop having sex...
 
The one line uttered to Riley by Graham:

GRAHAM
About time we brought out the big guns.

is one of the best bits of comedy in the episode. Johnathan giving advice to Buffy about how to think about Riley after the body swap and Faith/Riley coupling is good. This is one of the better standalone episodes.
 
I'm with Adam, 'its intriguing but it's wrong'. I am no fan of this episode, mainly becasue I don't like seeing Buffy in a weak secondary role. If you are going to do an episode like this, it has to be funny and this just isn't. It doesn't work because Jonathan isn't a main character and I don't really care about his low self-esteem issues. To have more humour and a real emotional impact, the story should have been given to Xander or Riley. I imagine Riley's superstar world would be very sterile and strange indeed.
 
I'd say this is Jonathan's best episode of the series. It was very interesting and fun to watch.
But it also tried to teach us lessons too. You should always try to be yourself because being anything other then yourself won't last .
 
PaulParmar1 said:
I'd say this is Jonathan's best episode of the series. It was very interesting and fun to watch.
But it also tried to teach us lessons too. You should always try to be yourself because being anything other then yourself won't last .
Click to expand...

I always thought it was a pity Jonathan didn't learn from this, or apparently from the therapy he had after Earshot. Buffy saves and forgives him (twice) and he still goes on to join The Trio and try to take over Sunnydale. I have very little sympathy for Jonathan
 
Priceless said:
I always thought it was a pity Jonathan didn't learn from this, or apparently from the therapy he had after Earshot. Buffy saves and forgives him (twice) and he still goes on to join The Trio and try to take over Sunnydale. I have very little sympathy for Jonathan
Click to expand...

I agree. I think it taught the audience a lesson tho. Especially those who feel they need to change to be accepted. Jonathan tho I'm not a fan of. I think he plays the victim a lot instead of looking at himself.
 
I know some feel this one is cheap and out of place in the season. I just think it sums Buffy up as a show than it would take a minor character and do something this different and ambitious for a one off. I love how they fully commit to it. Its again key that its Buffy who cracks the code. The placing of the episode is actually just right. It comes after the big Faith two-parter and right before the big build at the end of the season. Like a nice breather.
 
Btvs fan said:
It's not very fun. Plus Jonathon and the Twins and his rape of them is skipped over. Hell its played for a laugh
Click to expand...

This world is non-existent. It is a glamour put over on everyone else via magic. The twins were never raped because they did not exist. Unless @Taake admits to being one of them.
 
Ethan Reigns said:
This world is non-existent. It is a glamour put over on everyone else via magic. The twins were never raped because they did not exist. Unless @Taake admits to being one of them.
Click to expand...

At the end of the episode Jonathan to Buffy "The Twins have moved out"
They existed and as soon as the spell ended they moved out ergo it was the spell that forced them there.
 
Is the spell forced people to go to Jonathan though?

Buffy and the scoobies were the same persons that they were in real reality of BTVS that they were before, it's just Jonathan that is a super being with incredible strength in this fake world, Jonathan being a super being with strength made some things and events change like him being the one who defeat the mayor .... I think Jonathan is the one who changed. I don't think the twins and people were forced to go to Jonathan. People were the one to go to him because he's rich, famous, incredibly strong and smart.
 
spikenbuffy said:
Is the spell forced people to go to Jonathan though?

Buffy and the scoobies were the same persons that they were in real reality of BTVS that they were before, it's just Jonathan that is a super being with incredible strength in this fake world, Jonathan being a super being with strength made some things and events change like him being the one who defeat the mayor .... I think Jonathan is the one who changed. I don't think the twins and people were forced to go to Jonathan. People were the one to go to him because he's rich, famous, incredibly strong and smart.
Click to expand...

I think the spell altered people's perception of Jonathan and created Jonathan related things (such as Calendars and Billboards) but I don't think it created an alternate world. Buffy even said at the end of the episode that people remember.
 
I think this episode has its moments; its ridiculous comedy works well and the important characters moments between Riley and Buffy are- thankfully- played straight.

It does raise an interesting question; at what point does altering reality become some sort of mind control? Does Jonathan basically control minds with that spell? He is influencing perception.
What about the monks who created Dawn and built all those memories, is that mind control?
 
Ethan Reigns
Ethan Reigns
Yes to both questions.
spikenbuffy said:
Is the spell forced people to go to Jonathan though?

Buffy and the scoobies were the same persons that they were in real reality of BTVS that they were before, it's just Jonathan that is a super being with incredible strength in this fake world, Jonathan being a super being with strength made some things and events change like him being the one who defeat the mayor .... I think Jonathan is the one who changed. I don't think the twins and people were forced to go to Jonathan. People were the one to go to him because he's rich, famous, incredibly strong and smart.
Click to expand...

No they weren't the same. Buffy was clearly different from his she normally was. Its just that it was played for laughs
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom