Discussion of 5.22 "Not Fade Away" - Aired 5/19/2004 (WB-US)

[Taake]

I adored NFA, in fact I go and say I actually preferred it to the end of BTVS.

I loved how NFA has an almost mythic like end were are heros are left to fight on, their end undecided.

I mean "Lets go to work" Is it great line to end on imo.

Agree. I really love this ending and try not to think too much about the comics and who survived and didn't. Because I like the simplicity of "Let's go to work" and then just not knowing!

(hadn't it been for the comics I probably would have assumed that they all died. Which isn't sad to me because they would all have gone down making that final stand)

 

[Fuffy]

While this episode was quite sad and heartbreaking, I thought that it was the perfect way to wrap thing up, especially because of the last scene where thousands of demons approach the remaining members of Angel Investigations, to which Angel says "Let's go to work".
IMO, that last scene showed what Angel Investigations is all about and that's probably why I liked it as much as I did.

 

[bespangeled]

Buffy ended with the closing of the Hellmouth to make sure an invasion of uber-vamps does not attack and destroy the world.

Angel ended with killing the Black Thorn even though it opened the world to an invasion of demons who will attack and destroy the world.

And can you really sign away a prophecy?

 

[Charmander]

I'm torn over the decision to kill Wesley. I wasn't happy about them killing off Anya in the final minutes of BtVS either because I think you need a lengthier grieving period for a long-term character. (I.e. Having a 2 part finale and killing the character off in the first half) But then again Wesley's death scene was very well-done with the touching moment between "Fred" and Wes, and the cliffhanger over whether Illyria had feelings for Wes. Similar to my point about Harmony. I understand that she is soulless but they did a pretty decent job of developing her as a character willing to do good; not everything has to be rainbows and unicorns but it seems a little disappointing to make her betray them right at the end.
I think the episode overall was better than Buffy's finale, as was the final season in general, but there was a bit too much going on.

 

[VisionBoy]

Buffy ended with the closing of the Hellmouth to make sure an invasion of uber-vamps does not attack and destroy the world.

Angel ended with killing the Black Thorn even though it opened the world to an invasion of demons who will attack and destroy the world.

The apocalypse was already going ahead either way. That's pretty much the choice they always have- wait for the world to end, or fight before it does. The latter will always risk some major death and destruction... but ultimately it's gotta be at least a little better than the former.

 

[bespangeled]

The apocalypse was already going ahead either way. That's pretty much the choice they always have- wait for the world to end, or fight before it does. The latter will always risk some major death and destruction... but ultimately it's gotta be at least a little better than the former.

According to Lindsey, the apocalypse was daily life. Not exactly a situation that needed extreme action immediately. Yes, taking down the Black Thorn was a good goal - but in deciding to do that they knowingly unleashed an apocalypse of innumerable ferocious demons on the city of LA. They all knew they wouldn't survive - they all knew that the demons would be free to roam and kill with no one left in LA to fight them. So they made a statement, and everyone else pays the price.

 

[Fuffy]

The "previously on" thing is back 😀

One big happy Manson family 😛 (Speaking of that, how the hell is Charles Manson still alive ??? 😵).

Hamilton, always thought that there was something about him...

Sebassis 😱

The original prophecy 😱

Don't sign it...😡

He signed it 🙁

Harmony, you were a sheep that liked to follow Cordy around...🙄

Harmony seems to have matured a bit...

The devil you know > The devil you don't know.

Illyria is dying, shame 🙁

Connor 😱

Annie 😱

Gunn, don't do this to her 🙁

Why does Illyria always wear the same clothes ??? 😵

Wes, you will die tonight...

Spike's reading poetry in public 😛

Eve...🙄

Spike volunteers to betray Angel 😛

What's Lorne going to be doing ??? 😵

Harmony and Hamilton 😱

Lorne's leaving 🙁

Demons smoking a water pipe 😱

Cool swords 😉

Harmony has been caught 😀

She got fired 😀

Spike, run with the baby...

Connor 😱

The senator is dead 😀

Lindsay, no one trusts you...

R.I.P Lindsay.

R.I.P Wesley 🙁

Illyria has feelings 😱

He doesn't know what he's messing with...

He fed on Hamilton 😱

Ding dong Hamilton is dead 😀

Go home Connor...

Spike's ok, and Gunn is too 😀

Illyria is here too 😀

More violence 😀

...and it ends with a cliffhanger, which I don't like but I can live with it 🙂

The End

 

[DagonSphere]

I was displeased about the cliffhanger too, when this episode first aired. Now, I honestly really like the ending, I don't always need to see a big battle and I am also kind of unsure how it all would have gone down, since they didn't really have a big budget to pull off a big battle anyway. To see these four characters go out fighting was kind of cool. To this day, I am more upset about how the cancellation cut the Illyria/Wesley storyline short, because that was just such a fascinating dynamic and I would have loved to see more of that. The cliffhanger doesn't bother me as much, because if the show had gone on, our heroes would have made it through it, even Wes would have survived, as Joss has been telling for years.

I think one of my favorite moments in the finale is when Illyria tells Gunn "Don't die, you are not unpleasant to my eyes".

Adam Baldwin was a great villain. I loved him in this role and wish he had been there from the beginning of the season instead of Eve. How pointless the Eve character was is once again illustrated in the finale where she is nothing but Lindsey's worrying girlfriend with nowhere to go and nothing to do once the apocalypse goes down.

 

[FaithLehane16]

I hate cliffhangers (and I don't care WHAT Joss says, THAT WAS A CLIFFHANGER!). I can tolerate them to some extent from one episode to the next, or even, if absolutely necessary, from the end of one season to the beginning of the next. But for Joss to intentionally end Season 5 knowing that there would be no Season 6 was cruel and inconsiderate to the fans who have been faithful to him since "Welcome To The Hellmouth" and "City Of Angels." I can admit and freely allow that there were just too many issues in play at that time to settle each and every one of them, but the show could have ended on a more hopeful note that three warriors facing off against an entire army.

I agree. I find it hard to believe that 3 soldiers with 1 wounded, are enough to kill a whole army with a dragon and a giant. Angel needed more help. Joss was dumb to not let him have the Scoobies to help Angel out.

 

[spikenbuffy]

"If the next words out of your mouth are "Kill Spike", we just might have to kiss." 😛

 

[burrunjor]

Just finished this today, absolutely brilliant finale. Better than Buffy's I'd say.

Overall Angel finished on a high, which was good as it also marked the end of the entire Buffyverse too (though I still hope for a Fray tv series.)

 

[white avenger]

I find it hard to believe that 3 soldiers with 1 wounded, are enough to kill a whole army with a dragon and a giant.

And just for the record, I also think that the deus ex machina solution that they finally got around to using in the"After The Fall" arc in the comics was probably the most lame excuse for a "solution" like this that has ever been imagined.

 

[Btvs fan]

And just for the record, I also think that the deus ex machina solution that they finally got around to using in the"After The Fall" arc in the comics was probably the most lame excuse for a "solution" like this that has ever been imagined.

I agree with James Marsters on this. I think its best if Angel and Co died swinging in that alley. I definitely prefer that to After the Fall or urgh Twilight...

 

[Angel6]

I agree with James Marsters on this. I think its best if Angel and Co died swinging in that alley. I definitely prefer that to After the Fall or urgh Twilight...

Looking back on this years later....

I feel like the impactful ending has been so cheapened by the god awful follow on comics. The message of the show was that if nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do, and if that’s making a last stand even thought it’s hopeless, that’s what they do, because it’s the right thing to do, and that’s the reward. I felt like it had the potential to be a classically tragic ending like the Ending to Blackadder 4.

To be honest for me if they get out of it, it’s just a crap ending, there’s nothing poignant about it.

 

[Faded90]

Looking back on this years later....

I feel like the impactful ending has been so cheapened by the god awful follow on comics. The message of the show was that if nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do, and if that’s making a last stand even thought it’s hopeless, that’s what they do, because it’s the right thing to do, and that’s the reward. I felt like it had the potential to be a classically tragic ending like the Ending to Blackadder 4.

To be honest for me if they get out of it, it’s just a crap ending, there’s nothing poignant about it.

Agreed, everything about the set up of the final scene was to basically tell us that they WILL die. Even down to the rain and the way they look totally bedraggled

The comics are AU as far as I’m concerned and the word Twilight has absolutely no place in the Buffyverse

 

[Btvs fan]

Agreed, everything about the set up of the final scene was to basically tell us that they WILL die. Even down to the rain and the way they look totally bedraggled

The comics are AU as far as I’m concerned and the word Twilight has absolutely no place in the Buffyverse

Yep as far as I'm concerned they all died swinging in that alley.

 

[Btvs fan]

I so prefer this as the ending over Chosen. Its such a better finale imo

 

[Stake fodder]

I had expected this to be a longer episode, as a series finale. But it was a great ride, with every character getting some spotlight, and despite (or because of?) the unfinished ending, a good wrap-up for the series.

I found it hard to believe they thought Illyria might join the other side. She hasn't been evil for several episodes. Isn't that enough in this universe? (I guess not, considering Harmony.) Her final scene with Wes was very affecting and showed how far she's come. And her comment to Gunn that "you are not unpleasant to my eyes" seemed a call-back to Fred and Gunn's relationship, too.

The Black Thorns sounded like a bunch of Shriners with their opening chant! It seems unlikely that someone can sign away a prophecy, but it shows that Angel will have to sacrifice something for the greater good, yet again. If only Spike knew that Angel was out of the running, he'd lose interest, too, I'd bet.

I loved the 'last-day' vignettes. Finally, Spike gets respect for his (still awful) poetry! And I liked that Anne's conversation with Gunn reiterated the series motto: if nothing we do matters, than all that matters is what we do. I even liked seeing Connor again, finally reconciled with his father.

Lindsey has been rather OOC this season for how he was before, and I wish there had been more time to take him back nearer to his former self, and then it would have been more believable that Angel asked him to join the team.

I felt like Harmony was sold short in this episode. She's soulless, but she's also ditzy and not at all capable of being secretive, as shown by her confessing about Hamilton before Angel even asks. So I tend to believe her when she says she would have been loyal if Angel had had more confidence in her. Surely Hamilton seduced her easily because no one else at W&H liked her.

I felt so sorry for Lorne. He was really proven right about Angel, that while the evil may have been an act, he was getting darker: he expected Lorne, of all people, to kill Lindsey in cold blood. Lindsey has been bad, but he is not a demon leader, he is someone that Lorne has known for years, someone who sang at his nightclub, and whom he has 'read.' To me, Angel was asking the most of Lorne, who feels compelled to do it as his only contribution to the battle. The deadness in his eyes as he kills Lindsey was heart-wrenching. In hindsight, it makes his karaoke song so wistful.

Illyria tells Gunn that he is fading. But the title is "Not Fade Away," and even Gunn and Wes don't, going down fighting.

Well, this is really long, so lucky it's my last review! Thanks for reading.

 

[Antho]

I had expected this to be a longer episode, as a series finale. But it was a great ride, with every character getting some spotlight, and despite (or because of?) the unfinished ending, a good wrap-up for the series.

I found it hard to believe they thought Illyria might join the other side. She hasn't been evil for several episodes. Isn't that enough in this universe? (I guess not, considering Harmony.) Her final scene with Wes was very affecting and showed how far she's come. And her comment to Gunn that "you are not unpleasant to my eyes" seemed a call-back to Fred and Gunn's relationship, too.

The Black Thorns sounded like a bunch of Shriners with their opening chant! It seems unlikely that someone can sign away a prophecy, but it shows that Angel will have to sacrifice something for the greater good, yet again. If only Spike knew that Angel was out of the running, he'd lose interest, too, I'd bet.

I loved the 'last-day' vignettes. Finally, Spike gets respect for his (still awful) poetry! And I liked that Anne's conversation with Gunn reiterated the series motto: if nothing we do matters, than all that matters is what we do. I even liked seeing Connor again, finally reconciled with his father.

Lindsey has been rather OOC this season for how he was before, and I wish there had been more time to take him back nearer to his former self, and then it would have been more believable that Angel asked him to join the team.

I felt like Harmony was sold short in this episode. She's soulless, but she's also ditzy and not at all capable of being secretive, as shown by her confessing about Hamilton before Angel even asks. So I tend to believe her when she says she would have been loyal if Angel had had more confidence in her. Surely Hamilton seduced her easily because no one else at W&H liked her.

I felt so sorry for Lorne. He was really proven right about Angel, that while the evil may have been an act, he was getting darker: he expected Lorne, of all people, to kill Lindsey in cold blood. Lindsey has been bad, but he is not a demon leader, he is someone that Lorne has known for years, someone who sang at his nightclub, and whom he has 'read.' To me, Angel was asking the most of Lorne, who feels compelled to do it as his only contribution to the battle. The deadness in his eyes as he kills Lindsey was heart-wrenching. In hindsight, it makes his karaoke song so wistful.

Illyria tells Gunn that he is fading. But the title is "Not Fade Away," and even Gunn and Wes don't, going down fighting.

Well, this is really long, so lucky it's my last review! Thanks for reading.

Thanks to you. It was a pleasure to read your review each time. They were very well written and smart. It will miss me. You give me envy to rewatch the show.

 

[burrunjor]

Well just finished my rewatch of Angel. All in all I have to say it holds up brilliantly. It was never boring and the only bad season was 4. The rest meanwhile consists of some of the greatest television ever made and the finale is up there with the likes of Blake's 7 (which it bares more than a passing resemblance too.) As one of the absolute best of all time.

From Lindsey's end, to Connor's redemption, to Wesley's tragic death, to Spike rescuing the baby (who in one of the most adorable scenes in anything, shakes his head at going back LOL) to Illyria giving Vale his just deserts, to Spike's poetry going down well with the tough guys at the bar, to Angel's vampire side saving his life, to Senator Bruckner getting an axe in the head, it was just wall to wall classic moments.

Credit where credit is due, the last season of Angel still holds up as one of the greatest of any show and I still say that a lot of Buffy and Angel's reputation rests on that season.

As I've said elsewhere, endings can be the most important thing in terms of securing a shows reputation. Blake's 7 for instance's positive reputation has a lot to do with its sensational ending, whilst Game of Thrones, well the opposite is true. Had the Buffy and Angel franchise ending with Angel season 4 and Buffy season 7, neither of which were their finest hours then whilst Buffy and Angel would obvs always be remembered, I'm not sure if they'd be as well regarded. See also Xena, which many fans don't think ended as well, and similarly has a more mixed reputation compared to Buffy and Angel.

However the fact that Angel and by extension the entire Buffyverse franchise ended so perfectly I think helped cement their reputation as some of the best genre tv ever made.