Spike never raped Buffy. Toxic yes, rape no.
"Don't" (and she's about to cry)
"Stop me"
You don't want to call it rape - the evidence says otherwise.
Far and away the most abusive person on the series was Willow (or Warren, but he ws pure villain)
She was abusive, there's no denying that. The
most abusive though? I wouldn't say so.
Soulless Spike didnt go around murdering her friends.
He did try though, and if it wasn't for the chip - would've succeeded. Why are you acting like Spike still wasn't making attempts to harm the Scoobies?
When he was bad, he was pretty direct about his intent.
Soulless demon Spike fought for his soul BECAUSE he regretted what he did to Buffy. Because he (a demon) realized his demon could not do true good even though it was clear he loved - Buffy, Dru, Dawn, Joyce & very telling - he (as a demon) tried to save his mum from TB -at the time a 100% fatal disease.
No, he realised he lost his chance with her after she threw him off after he attempted to violently rape her and said, "Ask me again why I could never love you!". Stop making out Spike to be some noble guy. People love to point out he 'loved' and was doing good pre-soul - which means the guy had awareness of right and wrong apparently, yes? So I think he should know raping Buffy is wrong. She ended things, yet he continued to pursue her. Wouldn't take no for an answer...
He tried to save his mum by
not asking her if that was what she wanted, and then turning her into a demon. Lack of consent...kinda Spike's thing...
From the time Spike woke as a demon, his motivations were *always* toward people he cared about.
Of course his demon made bad decisions - he had no moral compass.
But he tried. He cared for the Drusilla who soulless Angelus defiled and destroyed - and Spike did this for over 100 years. THAT was SOULESS Spike.
He also cared for her because she was his sire.
Soulless Spike let Glory almost kill him to protect Dawn. Soulless Spike protected Dawn even after Buffy was gone with no hope of return. Because he promised. Because he cared.
And all that 'care' for Dawn went right out the window when Buffy was back. Spike did 'good' when he was trying to show Buffy he was 'good'. You'll also notice his apparent 'good deeds' ceased when Buffy was back and especially when they started having sex. Almost like, he got what he wanted so there was no need to impress her.
Soulless Spike helped save the world even when he claimed and owned being evil. Then after the chip he began to fight his demon.
He did so to save his skin and Dru's (and to get back at Angelus).
The chip does not install a moral compass. Buffy even says it herself: "You're like a serial killer in prison!". If it wasn't for the chip, Spike would still be out there killing. He was
leashed. Not 'good'.
Notice when he realises in the episode
Doomed that he can hit and kill demons, what does he say? He's filled with glee and says: "I'm back, and I'm a bloody animal!". He was happy he could be himself again (to a certain degree, but humans were still off the menu).
Soulless Spike got thrown from that tower trying to save Dawn and got thoroughly broken for it
Spike as a demon was a way better person than Angelus. THAT is the comparison.
Angelus abandoned Darla, his sire and lover and was pure sadist to Buffy and tried to destroy her they way he had terrorized Drusilla. That was Angelus. THAT is the comparison.
We cannot ever compare pre-soul Spike to Angel. It is not a fair comparison.
At the end of the day, they're both soulless demons. That's what it comes down to. Spike reveled in it, let's not pretend otherwise.
Souled Spike willingly died to save the world.
Souled Spike offered to leave when he realized he was dangerous.
Souled Spike realized he could never deserve Buffy
Spike got jealous seeing Angel and then took the amulet. By the way, Angel volunteered to wear it first, actually.
Spike still hung around, didn't help himself when GILES tried to help de-trigger him. Buffy left a dangerous vamp unleashed in a house full of helpless, innocent young women to be potentially killed. The same guy who couldn't even say sorry to the woman he abused and made her depression and PTSD even worse.
Buffy never loved Spike. Spike even says it. He never deserved her pre-soul or post-soul. Not after all the awful things he did and the way he treated her.
I do not and will never hate Angel, but the idea that Spike is Buffy's abuser is ludicrous.
Buffy was actively suicidal. Spike was actively demon. He did his *demon* best - and listened to her, saved her from dying and even took her massive abuse. It could never have ended well.
Given where she was that morning behind the magic box - she could have done far worse things in her traumatized, depressive state than have sex with Spike. Without Spike, she would have died by Sweet or killed herself.
He abused her, it's very clear. Were you watching s6? She used Spike as an outlet because she was at her absolute lowest. Think about how low she had to be to have sex with a soulless demon who he could barely stand.
If anyone was a monster to Buffy in season six it was Willow who brought her back (breaking all kinds of moral and magical codes) and never thought to ask WHY Buffy was so =%&#$. Dishonourable mension goes to Giles who abandoned a grieving, broke woman who dug herself from her own grave (something suicide provoking in its own right) He left AFTER he found out she was in heaven. He left her to raise her sister AND still BE 100% SAVE THE WORLD GIRL. Something for which she should have been paid way more than he was. The slayer stands between the planet and the end of ALL THINGS. Maybe he was hoping she would just die already?
Buffy really probably needd time in a locked ward or at least to have a rest. Giles. Walked. Away
Willow and gang didn't bring Buffy back with evil intentions, so she's not a 'monster'. The Giles leaving her was bad, I think almost everyone would agree with you on that - I would!
If you look at s6 - her friends not really being there for her and Giles leaving were down to poor writing choices, but it's also the very, very evident push to get Spuffy together. I'm sure you can see that from a mile away.
Pretty awful to say Giles wanted her to die.
As for being paid - all Slayers should've. All of them should've received a salary and have been treated better, rather than being thought of as disposable tools.
Then he came back and dumped a bunch of terrified girls on her doorstep. And left again. And THEN he dared to try to murder the only person she trusted at that point?
Wow. Buffy only trusted Spike? That's laughable. So she doesn't trust Willow or Xander? The friends who have been by her side for 6 years, who willingly put their lives on the line to help Buffy? The ones who saved Buffy from dying? Come on, you're reaching.
He lost the right to have ANY say when he drugged her like she was a tool to replace.
Hmm, and I guess Giles should let slide the fact that she told no one when Angelus was back and she betrayed him?
TBH, knowing a little about how traumatized people (mostly don't) cope (drugs, booze, violent relationships, cutting, eating disorders, unsafe sex, hurting themselves, hurting others, homicide, suicide attempts, gambling, stealing, actual suicide) - i think sleeping with someone toxic who actually a) listened b) saved her life - was way lesser on the evil side.
I know people who have tried most of the above coping methods. Some survive. Many do not. Even with help.
Buffy was about 6 years a slayer by the time she died. The second time. She had no childhood. She was treated as disposable. Even with her healing, she probably spent a lot of her life in physical pain. That was before dead mother-suicide by world saveage-heaven-waking up in coffin-diggigng out-world too loud-missingnheaven-being broke-everybody wants something-fight-work-fight.
Of course Spike was going to 'listen' and willingly have sex with her - because he wanted to get into her pants. As if he was going to do anything else?
That said, I sympathise with Buffy and understand her actions. But let's not forget that by engaging in his harmful behaviour, it served only to further drag her down into the darkness. Something she was able to snap out of eventually when Riley comforted her.
Using Spike was killing Buffy - something she directly told him. It might've given her a temporary high, but like an addict, they're back to being miserable once that high wears off, and in the cycle of chasing the next 'hit'. Buffy was able to break that cycle - and it was a beautiful and uplifting moment for her.
Sleeping with two vampires to grab a little comfort from a mean existence? Those were pretty good bad choices!
She slept with Angel because she was in a loving relationship with him. Not for 'comfort'. That's a weird comparison. Spike she used for sex as she was depressed, but not in love with him.
