Discussion of Angel 11.10 - Released 10/25/17 (Dark Horse)
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NileQT87
Billowy Coat, King of Pain
I guess it's time to break out this oddity in 'shipping what-ifs (I know, Fred, not Illyria, but at least the latter is coming from somewhere with the old crush, only to be shooed away by hypocritical Cordy with the curse, and Angel was into the diversion kiss in The Magic Bullet):
And well, all the men were in love with Fred, Angel included. LOL. Angel's adorable protective streak always came out a lot with her.
As for Illyria... Yeah, he's breaking down here into the suicidal zone. I think it's just getting too much for him to keep losing and losing and losing, with no light at the end of the tunnel. The comics have taken away everything he had left in his life from him. I'm glad he got to see Kathy again, but seeing his family dead again broke him. It would be interesting if Illyria could do something radical like turning him human (which she/it has done before--she/it turned him into a baby once). That would throw a much-needed wrench into the BtVS comic.
And well, all the men were in love with Fred, Angel included. LOL. Angel's adorable protective streak always came out a lot with her.
As for Illyria... Yeah, he's breaking down here into the suicidal zone. I think it's just getting too much for him to keep losing and losing and losing, with no light at the end of the tunnel. The comics have taken away everything he had left in his life from him. I'm glad he got to see Kathy again, but seeing his family dead again broke him. It would be interesting if Illyria could do something radical like turning him human (which she/it has done before--she/it turned him into a baby once). That would throw a much-needed wrench into the BtVS comic.
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Mylie
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I could never ship them. Fred saw him as this knight in shining armor when they met and she was like the damsel in distress, she even died powerless. I don't like that dynamic at all.
I don't really have a preference between a relationship with Illyria or Fred. I think both dynamics are bad for his characterization.
NileQT87
Billowy Coat, King of Pain
There's also the fact that Fred is now in the same situation as Angel is. There's an empathy here in their shared future, which is almost certain, given that everyone else is or will be gone. Buffy, as much as she and Spike are pretending, are in the same situation that Buffy was in with Angel. Both Angel and Fred are stuck in immortal, changed bodies with demons keeping their dead selves alive (though Illyria gets along better than Angelus). Both are undead with split personalities and being kept alive by the very thing that killed them. Angel right now is feeling like a complete monster, which is why he's empathizing with the demon who is also confused if she/it is human or demon now.
And Angel clearly likes good girls (he outright said it to Buffy) and has always elevated innocence as a quality he wished he himself had and it's something he always strives to protect (no doubt a lot of guilt there, especially with Drusilla). He even said he found her, even in her barely-sane state after Pylea (another thing he could relate to--craziness from prolonged social separation), to be calm and soothing (this was also a barb at Cordy not being that). The man who thought he never could have children, pretty much adopted all of his loved ones and friends and tried to take care of them all, only to lose almost each and every one. You can see this tenfold with Connor when he finally did have a real child of his own and couldn't handle losing him, too.
Fred wasn't always as helpless as she's thought of, despite how she died. She saved Angel's ass several times: in Pylea with the bloody hand, by axing the Durslar beast's head and by shooting him with Jasmine's blood on the bullet.
And it's not like Angel didn't save Buffy, Cordy and numerous other characters numerous times and exhibit a protective streak because he knew they weren't as immune to getting hurt (even emotionally--Cordy took issue when he called out correctly that her wanting to play superhero was killing her) as they pretended to be. He did. It wasn't only those without superpowers or those who were outwardly sweet and innocent he felt the need to protect and knew the risk of damage wasn't only physical for.
There's also the fact that Fred went through particularly traumatic experiences that Angel could directly relate to. His first response to Buffy was seeing her world and everything she had ever known crash down around her and empathizing with her, as well. Getting ripped out of their lives, being totally alone and getting dumped in a horrible situation they suddenly have to cope with is something they all had in common.
And Angel clearly likes good girls (he outright said it to Buffy) and has always elevated innocence as a quality he wished he himself had and it's something he always strives to protect (no doubt a lot of guilt there, especially with Drusilla). He even said he found her, even in her barely-sane state after Pylea (another thing he could relate to--craziness from prolonged social separation), to be calm and soothing (this was also a barb at Cordy not being that). The man who thought he never could have children, pretty much adopted all of his loved ones and friends and tried to take care of them all, only to lose almost each and every one. You can see this tenfold with Connor when he finally did have a real child of his own and couldn't handle losing him, too.
Fred wasn't always as helpless as she's thought of, despite how she died. She saved Angel's ass several times: in Pylea with the bloody hand, by axing the Durslar beast's head and by shooting him with Jasmine's blood on the bullet.
And it's not like Angel didn't save Buffy, Cordy and numerous other characters numerous times and exhibit a protective streak because he knew they weren't as immune to getting hurt (even emotionally--Cordy took issue when he called out correctly that her wanting to play superhero was killing her) as they pretended to be. He did. It wasn't only those without superpowers or those who were outwardly sweet and innocent he felt the need to protect and knew the risk of damage wasn't only physical for.
There's also the fact that Fred went through particularly traumatic experiences that Angel could directly relate to. His first response to Buffy was seeing her world and everything she had ever known crash down around her and empathizing with her, as well. Getting ripped out of their lives, being totally alone and getting dumped in a horrible situation they suddenly have to cope with is something they all had in common.
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Mylie
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I know, but I still can't help but see her that way when it comes to their dynamic and it bothers me. And Angel did save Buffy a couple of times but she never saw him as stronger or more heroic than she is.
Anyways, good thing for you if you're open to it. I wish I was.
And do you know what else I thought of?
Can we stop with the Spike and Angel sharing women thing? Dru. Buffy. Now Illyria.
You know what they say, once you pop you can't stop... dating vampires that is.
And clearly the two of them have similar taste in women.
MarlieTheSlayer
Bangel shipper
Goodness, the Angel comics were on my wishlist 😱 Check please!
Grace
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Last month it was like 5 days before the issue came out (the Friday before, I think). Here's the solicitation if you haven't already seen it:
I think the use of the word "steam" seems very deliberate. Ha!
While I'm at it, this is the other cover for #11:
And here is the image and solicitation for #12:
As the steam clears from Angel's confrontation with the goddess Illyria, the trio find themselves back in the present where their time-traveling adventure began. Angel, Fred, and Illyria are finally ready to face what waits for them--as long as they all can let go of the past...
I think the use of the word "steam" seems very deliberate. Ha!
While I'm at it, this is the other cover for #11:
And here is the image and solicitation for #12:
An angel and a goddess: can they save the world? Angel, Fred, and Illyria, back in the present, find they've changed history...for the worse. There's a crack in time, and something monstrous, growing beyond control, has become the fount of an insect plague--a harbinger of the end of days! As Dublin is overrun, the trio must figure out how to destroy it, before it destroys...everything.
@Priceless is that a yes or no?
@Grace @VisionGirl my two othe comic book gurus. Can you answer above question re Illyria/Connor?
@Grace @VisionGirl my two othe comic book gurus. Can you answer above question re Illyria/Connor?
Priceless
Just seen this :-) Sorry, have no idea
EarthLogic
Scooby
It was in the IDW post-After the Fall continuation - #34 to be exact, written by Bill Willingham. I find the comics after Brian Lynch's run such a bizarre series that I personally can't consider them canon. Not sure if they are, as I've never heard of events from them being referenced in any of the S9/10/11 comics.
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Oh I’m sorry if this was a spoiler! Whoops. It’s not in After the Fall so figured it was in the off shoots that Joss didn’t approve.
I’m still confused as to what constitutes canon over on IDW and what doesn’t aside from ATF.
Grace
No worries! I probably won't read that series anyway. :)
EarthLogic
Scooby
So am I. I loved Lynch's work, but then we got 'Aftermath' which was ghastly, then Willingham's stuff, which I can only assume I found dull since I can't actually remember a thing about his issues. I'd stopped reading seriously anyway by then.
Mylie
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They are not considered canon. Whedon only approved issues 1 to 17, after that IDW decided to do their own thing.
EarthLogic
Makes sense then!
Mrs Gordo
Thanks! I should have tagged you!
