Does anyone likes Holtz?

[GraceK]

Wow - I can't believe anybody could possibly feel that strongly about a minor character like Justine... or would be happy to see more Kate!

I’m ambivalent on Kate. I loathe and despise Justine. Personally I think it has more to do with the actress than the character. I found her one note, annoying, unlikable and without a single sympathetic or redeeming quality. She was pathetic, stupid, and weak willed. And her back story was not nearly sympathetic enough to justify kidnapping a baby or slitting an innocent mans throat. It may have been an interesting character if the actress was marginally more talented .Also, I am a huge fan of Wesley and even though I thought he was a numnut for his actions, Justine slitting his throat and then smiling about it was enough for me to want her to get cancer of the anus or eaten by a gnarl, preferably both.

 

[NeonSlayer]

@Myheadsgonenumb

Yes, many people cheer on Willow. Most of the fandom. In fact, some called Buffy a bad friend & disloyal for not helping Willow to torture & murder Warren.

Willow flaying Warren is even used as a popular reaction gif on some feminist posts in a this-is-what-should-happen-to-misogynists way.

They watch the scene or gifs of it and write "Yas my Queen"

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

I also don't understand why he committed suicide. Angel's nothing now. A lion with his claws and fangs removed, for whom every day is just one more day to stay out of hell. But hell doesn't have to get Holtz, he can forgive Nagel, retire to a monastery, and await his last day, when he can rejoin his family. But, I did enjoy a glimpse into the world of Non-chosen Vampire Hunters. I didn't think it was very good, but I suppose someone has to do it.

 

[Bite-me]

I enjoy the grey area Holtz brings to the Big Bad role. Do you like Holtz as a villain or do you hate Holtz as a villain, why?

I do not think Holtz brings any new moral ambiguity to the show, most definitely not as a nemesis to Angel. The show already has a clear point of view on vengeance and revenge seeking, so the one dimensional purpose of his character and quest did not add any complexity, the portrayal of Holtz is clearly villanized opponent to the good guy Angel.

I maintain Drusilla brought back as a damaged mortal would have been more devastating then Darla and Holtz. Drusilla has the connection to Angel's evil past, really undermines the redemption philosophy of his work and that of his crew. I know Angel says redemption isn't why he fights but its in fact looms large as foundation including the prophecy. And Drusilla has the claim to vengeance. Like Angel said, she is eternal monument to his lack of forgivness.

I’m ambivalent on Kate. I loathe and despise Justine. Personally I think it has more to do with the actress than the character. I found her one note, annoying, unlikable and without a single sympathetic or redeeming quality. She was pathetic, stupid, and weak willed. And her back story was not nearly sympathetic enough to justify kidnapping a baby or slitting an innocent mans throat

I was under the impression Justine was the slayer called after Buffy dying in season six and the logic of her twin sister being killed in a case of mistaken identity, why she knows vampires exist and her overwhelming guilt and hate. Its a much better backstory no? I had never thought of juxtapositing Kate to Justine, that is kind of a brilliant corrective to both characters actually, if Kate was always intended to be insufferable, she would have succeeded with flying colors. Often times with Angel I think the show could have better convened two characters into one.

 

[November]

Holtz was one of the truly frightening villains. A human with more than enough reason to have it in for Angel. I never expected his revenge would be so devastating. Not just for Angel, but for his entire team, everyone Angel cared about (in LA) was affected by Holtz actions. He was a chilling character and executed well. Now I want to watch it again!