Question Fans: what are your thoughts on Joss Whedon now?

[DeadlyDuo]

Looks like Ray Fisher has just ended his career by throwing another tantrum.

Ray Fisher Won’t Work on Anything Involving DC Films President Following Joss Whedon Investigation

‘Justice League’ Star Ray Fisher Slams Walter Hamada: Cyborg Actor “Will Not Participate” In Any Films Associated With DC Boss

Basically Fisher didn't get the result he wanted. Gal Gadot even said she believed the investigation had been "thorough".

Interesting snippet from the deadline article:

“In July, Ray Fisher’s representatives asked DC Films President Walter Hamada to talk to Mr. Fisher about his concerns during the production of Justice League. The two had previously spoken when Mr. Hamada asked him to reprise his role as Cyborg in Warner Bros.’ upcoming Flash movie, together with other members of the Justice League.

In their July conversation, Mr. Fisher recounted disagreements he’d had with the film’s creative team regarding his portrayal of Cyborg, and complained that his suggested script revisions were not adopted. Mr. Hamada explained that creative differences are a normal part of the production process, and that a film’s writer/director ultimately has to be in charge of these matters.

Basically Fisher wasn't happy with how his character was being portrayed, he wanted the script rewritten and Whedon told him no. Fisher then decided to claim Whedon was racist.

Fisher's career is over. He's not some big name actor so he has no star power to fall back on. He's thrown a massive public temper tantrum and other studios are watching. In Hollywood, it's all about connections, and all Fisher is doing is showing he's difficult to work with and he'll accuse people of racism if he doesn't get his own way.

 

[Taake]

I don’t know, a lot of people side with Fisher, so his career probably isn’t over. He is still bankable, but may turn to his own production company or the like. Some will probably publically support him and make a show of working with him.

He may end up on listicles like this though

15 Difficult Actors That Nobody Wants To Work With

Not every Hollywood star is as charming off screen as they are when the cameras are rolling. Check out which actors are a chore to work with.

screenrant.com

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Just a question: if Ray weren't black, would people be reacting to him the same way? Would people still demand details and proof if it were a white actor making these same allegations of on-set mistreatment and abuse?

Why has no one demanded Gal Gadot tell what she meant when she said she had "problems" with Whedon on the set? I haven't heard a single person demand she say what those problems were... why is that?

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Just a question: if Ray weren't black, would people be reacting to him the same way? Would people still demand details and proof if it were a white actor making these same allegations of on-set mistreatment and abuse?

Why has no one demanded Gal Gadot tell what she meant when she said she had "problems" with Whedon on the set? I haven't heard a single person demand she say what those problems were... why is that?

Firstly Gal Gadot didn't have a public tantrum. Secondly, she got her problems sorted then and there. She went through the proper channel and it was dealt with. Issues happened, issues were sorted in a way she was satisfied with.

As to your Ray Fisher question, given that his accusations are racism based, a white actor wouldn't make the same accusation. However if you're talking in a generalised manner, then yes, any accusations without proof should be viewed sceptically regardless of what colour the actor or actress is making them.

What people dislike is when certain celebrities use real issues suffered by some people to claim victimhood in order to promote themselves. Would Fisher be claiming racism if race wasn't such a big issue this year? Look at how he's attacking the Asian DC films president by accusing him of being a "dangerous enabler". Fisher wasn't happy with how his character was portrayed, he demanded the script rewrites and was told no. When he tried to cause a stink, he was informed by the higher ups that the writer/director is responsible for script decisions. Because he didn't get his own way, he threw a tantrum.

DC Films won't pander to Fisher when they've got major issues coming their way with Amber Heard. Although the studio has backed her publicly, the public is supporting Johnny Depp. When the Virginia trial finds in favour of Depp and the Libel retrial with an unbiased judge happens and also finds in favour of Depp, then Warner Bros is going to find itself in a very tricky situation. Depp is representing male victims of domestic abuse, and the fact that WB sided with the abuser just because she's a woman, it reflects very badly on them. The last thing they want is Fisher throwing a hissy fit every time he doesn't get what he wants and bringing further controversy to their door. He's already got the nickname Crybourg amongst fans.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Would Fisher be claiming racism if race wasn't such a big issue this year?

So you're basically saying that because he's black his claim of racist action is dismissed simply because of the current political climate. I'd like to know what happened with Gal Gadot. What Whedon did or said.

It's not about whether Gadot had a public tantrum or if she did things the right way and sorted the problem, it's that two people had issues with Whedon's behaviour on the set. Knowing that she too had an issue with the man leads credence, in my mind, to Fisher's accusations. The fact that Whedon was removed from his own series also leads credence to something actually happening.

Maybe Hamada is being called an enabler because they do have evidence but don't want to make it public knowledge thus "enabling" Whedon in his future endeavors. Just as Weinstein had so many enablers in his day.

 

[TriBel]

Would Fisher be claiming racism if race wasn't such a big issue this year?

Why not? Racism wasn't invented last year...or the year before that...or the year before that...ad-not- quite-infinitum...

 

[DeadlyDuo]

So you're basically saying that because he's black his claim of racist action is dismissed simply because of the current political climate. I'd like to know what happened with Gal Gadot. What Whedon did or said.

It's not about whether Gadot had a public tantrum or if she did things the right way and sorted the problem, it's that two people had issues with Whedon's behaviour on the set. Knowing that she too had an issue with the man leads credence, in my mind, to Fisher's accusations. The fact that Whedon was removed from his own series also leads credence to something actually happening.

Maybe Hamada is being called an enabler because they do have evidence but don't want to make it public knowledge thus "enabling" Whedon in his future endeavors. Just as Weinstein had so many enablers in his day.

There was rumours that Whedon locked Gadot in a room or something because she refused to do the scene where The Flash lands on her breasts, hence why you don't see Wonder woman's face in that scene because it was a double.

As for Fisher. There's two things, the first being that in his own words he was "informed" of the supposed racism by a third party rather than witnessing it, the second is that the crux of his issue is that he wasn't happy with they way his character was portrayed in Whedon's version of the film, he wanted the script rewritten with his suggestions and was told no. Whedon has history of unprofessionalism, but there is a difference between unprofessionalism and racism.

Did Fisher have to endure unprofessionalism from Whedon? Probably.
Did Fisher endure racism from Whedon or is Fisher saying it's racism because he's black? That is the question.

In my opinion, there are several factors that point to Fisher claiming racism because he's black rather than Whedon actually being racist:
1. Fisher's main complaint is that his script suggestions weren't adopted.
2. Fisher can only talk about supposed racism that he was "informed" about by a third party. Why hasn't he "witnessed" any if racism was that rife on set?
3. WB, despite going woke, have not condemned Whedon's supposed racism and sent a generic HR letter to Fisher.

If there was a genuine case of racism, WB would be all over that and making a big noise about how they don't tolerate that kind of behaviour because they want to make themselves look good. Their silence is quite telling.

Why not? Racism wasn't invented last year...or the year before that...or the year before that...ad-not- quite-infinitum...

Much like when the MeToo movement was doing the rounds, it's much easier to claim victimhood without being scrutinised when you're in the favoured group. Whilst MeToo did have genuine accusations, there were also a few witch hunts because of false claims from women. Amber Heard capitalised on MeToo by claiming to be a victim of domestic abuse when the reality is that she was the one who was the abuser. The truth is coming out about her though, including claims that she used someone else's story of sexual assault and claimed it as her own, and that the money she promised to charity didn't go where it was supposed to go.

Just think back on the Jussie Smollett false claim which he did to try and promote himself. His accusation was that he was racially attacked by MAGA supporters. His lie was quickly exposed and he was fired from his tv show. Just imagine if he'd made that claim now. Trump supporters are being treated like garbage and actively threatened by democrat politicians, the police are being treated even worse, whilst black people are told they're oppressed and are treated like victims because they're black. So just imagine a black man claims he was attacked by MAGA supporters and the police say he was lying. Would the SJWs stop to think and wait for evidence or would they immediately jump into attack mode because a black man has made a claim regardless of whether it's true or not.

As Amber Heard proves, people will lie about serious topics and claim victimhood because the publics rallies around victims and it brings more attention to their profile.

Like I said above, did Fisher endure unprofessionalism from Whedon? Probably.
Did Fisher endure racism from Whedon or is Fisher saying it's racism because he's black? That is the question.

Nobody is saying the Whedon is without fault, but racism is a serious accusation. People shouldn't automatically believe Fisher just because he's black, the same way people shouldn't automatically believe Heard's claims about Johnny Depp just because she's a woman and he's a man (Heard actually told him that nobody would believe he's a victim of domestic abuse because he's a man and she's a woman).

 

[Skanky Vamp]

he wanted the script rewritten with his suggestions and was told no.

The script and his role was rewritten and Whedon would not let him have access to the script until he first met with him. That's when Whedon presented him the new script with his reduced role. The other actors received their scripts ahead of time and without having to first meet with Whedon.

If there was a genuine case of racism, WB would be all over that and making a big noise about how they don't tolerate that kind of behaviour because they want to make themselves look good.

Not necessarily. There could be major blowback for them allowing it to happen and condoning it up until it was made public. They would have as much to lose renouncing the actions because it could open up a bigger can of worms for them. How long has things like this been tolerated or ignored, etc. They don't want their past drudged up. So stay quiet and handle it internally. Let people wonder what the truth really is... as long as people don't know the truth they cannot be judged on the truth.

Their silence is quite telling.

Hence the enabling remark.

 

[TriBel]

@DeadlyDuo - I really don't give a flying flamingo about a) MeToo b) Jussie Smollett c) MAGA supporters d) Police or e) Democrat Politicians. It's all hypothetical. The fact remains that racism has been an issue for years...both before and after the Civil Rights Bill and there's no evidence to suggest that Fisher wouldn't be claiming racism any other year.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

The script and his role was rewritten and Whedon would not let him have access to the script until he first met with him. That's when Whedon presented him the new script with his reduced role. The other actors received their scripts ahead of time and without having to first meet with Whedon.

Perhaps Whedon knew Fisher wouldn't be happy with the new script and so he wanted to deal with Fisher's reaction and nip it in the bud before it could escalate? Damage limitation so to speak. Also Justice League seems to be Fisher's first movie in the DC Verse so perhaps that was a reason to meet Fisher face to face whereas the other actors were already established? It's also possible the Fisher's role was the only one that had significant changes to it, it's not unheard of for a character's role to get significantly reduced (like what happened with Anna Paquin in X-Men Days: of Future Past. The Rogue cut is a much better version of the movie, she was moved from an important plot role to a cameo in the original movie).

There could be many reasons why Whedon did that. If you're giving an employee bad news, it's normally done face to face. Was another character's role expanded?

Not necessarily. There could be major blowback for them allowing it to happen and condoning it up until it was made public. They would have as much to lose renouncing the actions because it could open up a bigger can of worms for them. How long has things like this been tolerated or ignored, etc. They don't want their past drudged up. So stay quiet and handle it internally. Let people wonder what the truth really is... as long as people don't know the truth they cannot be judged on the truth.

They're already facing blowback for keeping Amber Heard employed, in fact they're doubling down, if anything it would be more damaging for them if they didn't put out a statement saying how racism had no place at WB. Say for argument's sake that racism had occurred, there is no benefit to WB for keeping quiet after the fact. Fisher is shouting it from the rooftops, WB's best bet would be to publicly denounce Whedon's behaviour and say it does not align with WB's values etc. The only reason for them not to say anything is because it would be defamatory and could get them sued. If they're never going to work with Whedon ever again, why wouldn't they throw him under the bus to make themselves look good especially when they're already under fire?

Hence the enabling remark.[/QUOTE]

See above. Fisher wants Whedon punished/"cancelled". If the investigation didn't give Fisher the result he wanted eg they found no evidence of the "racism" that Fisher was "informed" about then they can't say Whedon was racist. Fisher would then say that they're being enablers. Feelings and facts don't always coincide. Fisher can feel however he wants, but if facts don't back that up, there's not much that the studio can do.

By going after the DC film president, all Fisher is doing is ensuring they won't ask him back for any future films (especially any outside the DC Verse). They could even possibly sue him for breach of contract if he signed on for 5 films (for example) and then is refusing to do any more. If Fisher gets a reputation for being difficult, no studio is going to want him because he's a liability.

@DeadlyDuo - I really don't give a flying flamingo about a) MeToo b) Jussie Smollett c) MAGA supporters d) Police or e) Democrat Politicians. It's all hypothetical. The fact remains that racism has been an issue for years...both before and after the Civil Rights Bill and there's no evidence to suggest that Fisher wouldn't be claiming racism any other year.

It's a little too coincidental that he's claiming it this year when BLM are creating issues, why not in 2019 or 2018? The point was that the social climate can make it easier to get away with false claims depending on which favoured group the person making the claim is a member of. If Jussie Smollett had pulled his fake hate crime stunt this year, he would've probably gotten away with it because the current factors eg anti-police, black=victim, anti-Trump and by extension anti-Trump supporter, all feed into his story in just the right way to garner him mass support from the noisy SJW crowd.

 

[nightshade]

This is going round and round in circles, and cannot stay on topic, so it's now locked.