Is this season just objectively bad and I never realized?

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Could it be you were so focused on Spuffy that you didn't notice everything else going on around them in s7?

Honestly, no. I think it's more that as I've aged, I've come to realize that I have mad a lot of excuses for the bad parts of the series, because it's so good overall.

We're all fans of the show, but even when we love something so much, it doesn't mean it's flawless, and it's perfectly OK to critique it and not blindly support it 'just because'.

Oh, absolutely! Isn't that what this forum is all about?

It definitely lends to the argument that the series should've ended as intended, at s5. Don't get me wrong; s7 has some great elements, some great standalone episodes, and the arc itself (fighting the First evil) was an interesting idea, but unfortunately it wasn't executed properly. It fell flat on its face.

Absolutely agree. Even more so as I get older. And as much as I love all the Spuffy stuff in S6 and S7, even I can admit the show should have ended then.

S7 is bloated with unnecessary storylines, relationships, too many new characters, speeches, and an evil that twiddles its thumbs. It's very, very problematic, and would rank as one of the lowest in the entire series.

Right. It reminds me of Supernatural and TVD - always introducing new characters where I can't even keep track.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 4:32 PM

But overall there is more to enjoy in S7, Buffy herself starts out better, Xander's pretty okay, Dawn improves greatly, uh, there's more Giles, Faith shows up eventually and the action set pieces are better than S6's (rather woeful) ones.

Agree about Dawn. It's cool to see her character develop and mature. And it's always great to see Faith for sure.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 4:39 PM

Its bad but in a different way than Season 6. Season 6 had some decent ideas that were executed terribly. Plus the whole depression plot line and AR, well thats not what I watch for entertainment.

See, I know I'm in the minority but S6 is my favorite season because it's relatable. I love the idea of the "Big Bad" being life. The characters deal with real stuff - depression, addiction, toxic relationships - things I have personally dealt with my own life. But I totally agree it's a downer and not very entertaining in a traditional way.And of course I find Spuffy fascinating so I love all the screen time they get. Also has OMWF and Tabula Rasa, my fav ep.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 4:40 PM

I think the most offensive thing is that the rape metaphor (clearly shown as such) of episode 15 is now the female empowerment moment of episode 22. You have a voice over of Buffy talking about giving a choice while literally showing a montage of girls (one looks 12) of not being given a choice ! Did no one stop and point out to Joss that contradiction ?

This is such a great point I never really thought of.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 4:42 PM

Yeah, they really wanted binding of Sineya to be a rape metaphor, that they never answered the question, a metaphor for what?

We learn that the First Slayer's powers were forced on her, right? Without her consent? So that would be the metaphor for rape.

 

[Kendar]

I refer to this as "Watching on momentum". When you've been watching a show you really enjoy, it can take a while to realize you aren't actually enjoying it anymore.

 

[SavvyScoobie]

You compare S3 Buffy and going up against the Mayor. Taking advice from everyone, delegating tasks to people with the right skills, researching and coming up, despite some wobbles, with a plan that had a chance of working, to her behaviour in S7; taking advice only from Spike and coming up with a "plan" that literally has no way of succeeding. Unless the plan was "lure everyone into a trap, get them wiped out and unleash the Ubervamps." The difference between the competent S3 Buffy and the incompetent S7 Buffy is Spike and what you have is someone making bad decision after bad decision thanks to abuse.

100% but I also think it's because the writers wanted to punish Buffy. At this time (late 90s early 2000s), many of the few young female leads were led down a disappointing path to develop the male characters more.

A lot of writers punish their female characters and degrade them, especially using their romantic interests. It's disgusting and makes my skin crawl. We all say that Buffy is a strong female lead but do the writers know that? They think that 'strong' means staying with your abuser and going through depression when you just needed mental help. That's not strong, thats hiding your pain.

It feels like a punishment because why tf is Buffy all friendly friendly with the guy that tried to rape her? It could be a trauma response, but that's no excuse for the show to just gloss over that! Spike briefly apologized and that's it. You can't convince me they didn't hate this girl. Feels like a narrative trying to tell young women to just 'forgive or forget'. It's incredibly problematic.

I'm tired of the rape culture everywhere in this show. It's one of the major criticisms I have for it.

They put her through so much. I sometimes I pause the show to think like 'this a lot, maybe too much'.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 11:00 PM

IIRC, Joss's version of feminism doesn't consider women's liberation to be a modern question that arises from increased leisure time for the working classes, but rather, the fighting of a sexist conspiracy haunting humanity since the earliest days of civilization.

When people say Buffy is a feminist show I just roll my eyes. It's just white feminism, and Buffy's abuser not being held responsible? Uhhh not feminist at all.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 11:01 PM

We learn that the First Slayer's powers were forced on her, right? Without her consent? So that would be the metaphor for rape.

Buffy should've never touched on rape. The writers are atrocious when it comes to that.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 11:03 PM

With. One. Bathroom.

Who needs Hell, they're already living it. 😀

Storyteller would have ended with the Potentials breaking into the bathroom and beating Andrew to death.

I see people mention this all the time on tt.

Literally horrifying.

 

[Btvs fan]

I refer to this as "Watching on momentum". When you've been watching a show you really enjoy, it can take a while to realize you aren't actually enjoying it anymore.

Its the 7th Season, most shows have 5 seasons at best before they're creatively exhausted and Buffy was no different

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 7:18 AM

Honestly, no. I think it's more that as I've aged, I've come to realize that I have mad a lot of excuses for the bad parts of the series, because it's so good overall.

Oh, absolutely! Isn't that what this forum is all about?

Absolutely agree. Even more so as I get older. And as much as I love all the Spuffy stuff in S6 and S7, even I can admit the show should have ended then.

Right. It reminds me of Supernatural and TVD - always introducing new characters where I can't even keep track.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 4:32 PM

Agree about Dawn. It's cool to see her character develop and mature. And it's always great to see Faith for sure.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 4:39 PM

See, I know I'm in the minority but S6 is my favorite season because it's relatable. I love the idea of the "Big Bad" being life. The characters deal with real stuff - depression, addiction, toxic relationships - things I have personally dealt with my own life. But I totally agree it's a downer and not very entertaining in a traditional way.And of course I find Spuffy fascinating so I love all the screen time they get. Also has OMWF and Tabula Rasa, my fav ep.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 4:40 PM

This is such a great point I never really thought of.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 4:42 PM

We learn that the First Slayer's powers were forced on her, right? Without her consent? So that would be the metaphor for rape.

I always thought it was a show of its time and people make excuses for some of Joss Whedon's writing choices (Its Martis fault) such as the reset or simply focusing on the moment. He could also be quite shallow and childish and not as deep as some like to think, see the multiple Penis monster metaphors and the Virgina curtains in Restless as examples. But overall the show was good fun. I enjoyed the rewatch.
Is it the greatest Show ever like some claimed No absolutely not and Gellars acting was not Emmy worthy like others claimed (Tony Head Carried the show for a long time) and it should definitely have ended with Buffys death in the Gift. But overall its a good show though is it as good as Breaking Bad or The Wire, Nope

 

[NotASlayer]

100% but I also think it's because the writers wanted to punish Buffy. At this time (late 90s early 2000s), many of the few young female leads were led down a disappointing path to develop the male characters more.

A lot of writers punish their female characters and degrade them, especially using their romantic interests. It's disgusting and makes my skin crawl. We all say that Buffy is a strong female lead but do the writers know that? They think that 'strong' means staying with your abuser and going through depression when you just needed mental help. That's not strong, thats hiding your pain.

It also sounds like it's even worse in that Joss wanted to punish Sarah herself, so it wasn't just the character. It also seems to be not uncommon, and not just in that period, to turn the main female actors against each other in shows so that they don't unite (and not just actors either; for examples, Sarah and Aly, Charmed and Shakespeare's Sister).

It feels like a punishment because why tf is Buffy all friendly friendly with the guy that tried to rape her? It could be a trauma response, but that's no excuse for the show to just gloss over that! Spike briefly apologized and that's it. You can't convince me they didn't hate this girl. Feels like a narrative trying to tell young women to just 'forgive or forget'. It's incredibly problematic.

Spike was a great character. Then they turned him into Warren Mears with charm and cheekbones and we had the misogynistic abuse fest that was Spuffy.

I'm tired of the rape culture everywhere in this show. It's one of the major criticisms I have for it.

Season six was the absolute worse for sexual violence, with more than the other six seasons combined.

Buffy should've never touched on rape. The writers are atrocious when it comes to that.

They were atrocious when it came to attempting to portray all genuinely real issues. The show, in its format and genre, was just not set up for that, so they could never cover real life problems in the depth they needed. I'm not even sure many of the writers had actually experienced real life problems.

 

[hoponlilmama]

It also sounds like it's even worse in that Joss wanted to punish Sarah herself, so it wasn't just the character. It also seems to be not uncommon, and not just in that period, to turn the main female actors against each other in shows so that they don't unite (and not just actors either; for examples, Sarah and Aly, Charmed and Shakespeare's Sister).

Which seems odd to me, right? Why cause friction on a successful series between actors? Like you're sabotaging your own series.

Spike was a great character. Then they turned him into Warren Mears with charm and cheekbones and we had the misogynistic abuse fest that was Spuffy.

Spike from s5....what a waste of a great character.

 

[NotASlayer]

I refer to this as "Watching on momentum". When you've been watching a show you really enjoy, it can take a while to realize you aren't actually enjoying it anymore.

This is basically what happened to me. I had all the episodes recorded on Freeview+ and was watching them one after another without any real pause, so it was only when I got to the end of S7 that I realised I hadn't enjoyed the last two seasons. At all. If I'd been in the situation where I was waiting weekly for an episode to come out, or had a several month pause between seasons, this would have given me time to think and notice that I'd stopped looking forward to the next episode way back in S6. There were multiple points like that in S6 where I would have potentially just stopped watching and almost certainly, given the gap between seasons, just gone "Nope" for S7.

It is different when that feeling hits you early on in a series, when you haven't had anything you particularly enjoy and therefore nothing to keep you.

 

[Btvs fan]

This is basically what happened to me. I had all the episodes recorded on Freeview+ and was watching them one after another without any real pause, so it was only when I got to the end of S7 that I realised I hadn't enjoyed the last two seasons. At all. If I'd been in the situation where I was waiting weekly for an episode to come out, or had a several month pause between seasons, this would have given me time to think and notice that I'd stopped looking forward to the next episode way back in S6. There were multiple points like that in S6 where I would have potentially just stopped watching and almost certainly, given the gap between seasons, just gone "Nope" for S7.

It is different when that feeling hits you early on in a series, when you haven't had anything you particularly enjoy and therefore nothing to keep you.

Season 7 was basically a soft reset/reboot from Season 6. Joss promised that since S6 was to dark then S7 would be lighter.
The problem (for me) was that it wasn't about darkness just that the main arc and villain was flat and the Potentials were awful

 

[NotASlayer]

Season 7 was basically a soft reset/reboot from Season 6. Joss promised that since S6 was to dark then S7 would be lighter.
The problem (for me) was that it wasn't about darkness just that the main arc and villain was flat and the Potentials were awful

S7's arc was overpowering, and rubbish, and the main villain was a MotW so boring I can't even remember it from its own episode. The Potentials, I can only remember the names of three, and two were because they were unpleasant (the third because she was played by Felicia Day). The others were the Sunnydale One, the British One, the Already Dead One, the Suicidally Stupid One, the Chinese One and the Others. The season not only made Buffy irrelevant to the outcome, like S6 did, it did the same to all the Scoobies.

I liked Angel S5. I'm not sure it was a good season of Angel, but it was a good season.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I love the show so much that I honestly don't see any of the seasons as "bad". There are a couple I don't love as much as others, but all the seasons include important character development and plot points (as well as gags). I don't see any of them as bad TV.

 

[silvermoon]

I see season 7 as a curiousity in a way, similar to 4. They tried some stuff, some worked, some didn't. I actually enjoyed some of the episodes. I didn't like what they did to Giles' character. Kennedy will forever be a giant, HUH? If you're gonna have Willow rebound that fast, at least make her a formidable woman. Tara had some chops underneath the psychic damage. Kennedy reminded me of a mall brat from LA whose sole purpose in life is to find the best coach bag, circa 1997.

I'm a Spike fan, so I found a lot of what went on with him compelling. I thought Buffy seemed lackluster and bored in many episodes, SMG's fire was fading. The final episode I loved. The scoobies did not get their due diligence and that still irks me. Lots of little things. Andrew livened things up, and Dawn continued to be a steady presence, but her depths were sadly never plumbed. And so it goes