Reboot Still Happening

[Btvs fan]

Depressingly, they tried this past year with The Acolyte. Which flopped horrendously. But instead of looking at the dreadful writing and acting, they’ll say “oh it’s because no Luke Skywalker.”

You can do original IPs or ideas in franchises. The problem comes with the fact that they get untalented hacks to produce it.

It was an awful show but Ill say it needed a load of rewrites and change of main character but the Acolyte "could have" been a decent show. They had to many writers and no continuity episode to episode. 1 second May is going to turn herself in and then by the next it's forgotten about ????
Also how can green lady blame it all on Sol when he was literally teaching children in the Jedi Temple when Trinity was killed ???
There was a germ of a good idea there. More than the Ahsoka show which was so boring and such a rip off well everything (even word for word scenes fron the original film) though it at least killed the oh Dave Filoni will save Starwars and showed him up for the hack he is.

 

[NoShip]

Agreed, there is a ton of stuff they could explore. The mindset, though, seems to be stuck in "It must be about Buffy." The existence of Angel shows that there is potential outside of Buffy, but it seems there is a fear of exploring it.

The issue in the C-Suite is that Angel did not make much money. Biffy did mot make any money off the broadcast fees until the UPN years, BUT, made a lot of money off the ancillaries. Angel never did.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

This reminds me of one of the dangers we faced back when I was in electronics design. A company would introduce a new part and put out a specification sheet for it. We would read the spec sheet and decide that it would be a good fit for a design we were doing. At that point, we would talk to one of the company salesmen or our own buyers and try to get hold of one for prototype design purposes. Then suddenly, we would get all kinds of excuses, like production was a year off or they were waiting for enough customers to show interest and we would realize that the device didn't exist was wasn't likely to ever exist. God help any designer who incorporated a non-existent part into a design. This happened often enough that we developed a name for it:

Vapourware

This was one of the tasks we were assigned as designers - make sure the item being advertised actually existed or had a firm development schedule. Our design group managers would make life hell for anyone who put forward a design using parts that were never going to be produced. And they would be justified.

The same thing is happening with Buffy. Lots of talk, lots of announcements but no sign anyone is actually going to do anything or spend anything. It was a good show from a quarter century ago and it had a reasonably good fan base back then because there were few female-centric shows at the time. Shows like Xena and Relic Hunter were good but they were not great money-spinners. But when the comics appeared, it was obvious from sales that peaked at 15,000 that this was not a good prospect for a lucrative reboot. So in my experience, the new Buffy show is:

Vapourware

It will never happen.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Angel has another problem, the Kunzis (Film producers and director). Per the TV rights contract, they were payed royalties despite having never set foot on the set of Angel. The same would have gone for Ripper or Faith or Willow or Dawn. So, let's say, hypothetically, Sam and Dean first appeared on Angel season 6, connected with the audience, then got Supernatural, royalties. It's a much better idea to distance your original IP from the Buffy verse.

 

[NotASlayer]

Which does tend to go against the current principle of not developing original IP and connecting everything to existing properties.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

As Star Wars goes, Disney made a lot of mistakes. Most of them seem to revolve around the Peter Principle. Like, Dave Filloni and Kathleen Kennedy are fine for middle management, but asking them to reinvent Star Wars for an entirely new generation is simply beyond their reach. It's beyond the reach of the hacks they hired to write this new timeline. I mean, you weren't going to find a revolutionary young filmmaker with a passion for Joseph Campbell who grew up when people still watched old movies and still read books, and maybe that's the problem. But moderate your ambitions accordingly.

 

[NotASlayer]

But when the comics appeared, it was obvious from sales that peaked at 15,000 that this was not a good prospect for a lucrative reboot.

Comic books, from what I can tell, whilst not completely at the bottom of the list of ways to make money from an IP (unless they are the IP that stuff is derived from), look to be so close to the bottom that they are rarely done in-house because they will never make much money in such a situation. So, it's better to dump comic books on an external publisher and just take a cut.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

When I mentioned vapourware before, I did not mention the reason it actually happens. You would think that a manufacturer who was known to be guilty of promoting vapourware would take a hit due to the reluctance of anyone to trust future announcements, but it makes perfect marketing sense. You do this to gauge the reaction of people and answer the question of whether of whether it is worthwhile to continue to make any effort in a particular direction. National Semiconductor was famous for announcements that never came to fruition and it looks like the entertainment industry has the same idea of gauging the probability of success of a venture by simply converting it to vapourware. BTW National Semiconductor got bought out by Texas Instruments and no longer exists as a separate company. I won't say vapourware caused this problem, but leaving a trail of burned designers behind certainly didn't help.

Post automatically merged: Jan 4, 2025

@NotASlayer excellent comment. We didn't see this in my engineering days to any great extent, but it would be a reasonable, if Machiavellian, idea but it does not appear to be possible in this case because the owners of the IP have an exclusive right. It's not like bringing out a new integrated circuit where the design differences are what actually sell it. What sells with entertainment IP is the similarity to what has existed before.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Yeah, they never announced a financial partner, they never announced a lead actress. No casting info or Screen plays have been found or proposals have leaked. There’s no evidence they settled the rights issues. If you assume the Black actress and showrunner stuff was just to bait the streaming companies, all we have that Joss is somewhat involved, and the series will be in continuity. That’s an awful lot of bait.

 

[NotASlayer]

@NotASlayer excellent comment. We didn't see this in my engineering days to any great extent, but it would be a reasonable, if Machiavellian, idea but it does not appear to be possible in this case because the owners of the IP have an exclusive right. It's not like bringing out a new integrated circuit where the design differences are what actually sell it. What sells with entertainment IP is the similarity to what has existed before.

I came across it in regards to computers/software and related technologies, such as mobile phones. I don't know whether it's true, but it does sadly seem plausible.

 

[Kendar]

I think the fear is of low profit margins. I saw a list of the most lucrative movies of 2024 today and 9 out of 10 were sequels (Wicked was the only original). Given how studios demand guaranteed mega-profit margins, I don't see Disney taking any risks. So..... Buffy the Vampire Slayer will remain about Buffy the Vampire Slayer..... only.

There was a list of 25 movies that Disney was releasing from 0-25 - 2027. Let's break them down into categories....

Sequels/prequels:
Mufasa: The Lion King
Moana 2
Tron: Ares
Zootopia 2
Frozen 3
Toy Story 5
Captain America: Brave New World
Avengers: Doomsday
Avengers: Secret Wars
The Mandalorian & Grogu
Alien: Romulus
Avatar 3

Remakes:
Snow White
Blade

Spinoffs/Shared Universe:
Thunderbolts
Fantastic Four: First Steps
The Mandalorian & Grogu
Star Wars: New Jedi Order
Star Wars: Dawn of the Jedi
Lando
3 other untitled Star Wars movies

Based on other work (EX: book to movie):
The Amateur

Original (as far as I know):
Elio

Of 25 movies exactly ONE appears to be something completely original. Everything else is tied to an existing property or (in ONE case) taking a novel with no previous Disney link and making a movie out of it (The Amateur). So yeah, no one seems to be betting on new material.

 

[Btvs fan]

@hoponlilmama @Ethan Reigns There is some new stuff out there you just have to look for it.
Obviously Disney etc are not the places for it bit it's out there.
I always recommend checking out old shows like Alec Guinness Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy that's really good

 

[NotASlayer]

Obviously Disney etc are not the places for it bit it's out there.

Yes, a lot of the innovation in media seems to come from smaller companies. Who, once they are successful, end up being bought by the bigger ones and stripped for parts/IPs.

 

[Cohen]

I didn't realize how many new shows in general are tied to existing media. For example, I watched the first season of Will Trent before I found out that it is based off the novel series by Karen Slaughter.

Has this always been a thing, or am I more aware because of technology?

 

[NotASlayer]

I didn't realize how many new shows in general are tied to existing media. For example, I watched the first season of Will Trent before I found out that it is based off the novel series by Karen Slaughter.

Has this always been a thing, or am I more aware because of technology?

I would say it has always been a thing to a degree, but it is becoming increasingly common as media companies are increasingly unwilling to take chances with IPs that have not already proven themselves to be successful, often in book form.

 

[Btvs fan]

I didn't realize how many new shows in general are tied to existing media. For example, I watched the first season of Will Trent before I found out that it is based off the novel series by Karen Slaughter.

Has this always been a thing, or am I more aware because of technology?

It's always been a thing but less well known. For example Starwars was based off the Hidden Fortress but set in Space.
Star Trek was based off both Hornblower and as a Wagon Train in Space
Fist Full of Dollars was Yojimbo and Magnificent 7 was 7 Samurai both in Western settings

 

[Btvs fan]

@Cohen
As an add on Joss Whedon basically ripped off Cowboy Bebop for Firefly and Serenity film.
Buffy with the whole quips and secret identity at school was essentially Spiderman and Angel was Batman on his show so even the Great Writing God himself was not above borrowing from other shows.
Doug Petrie on the Bad Girls DVD Commentary admitted he was ripping off Marvel Comics

 

[NotASlayer]

It's always been a thing but less well known. For example Starwars was based off the Hidden Fortress but set in Space.
Star Trek was based off both Hornblower and as a Wagon Train in Space
Fist Full of Dollars was Yojimbo and Magnificent 7 was 7 Samurai both in Western settings

I would say there is at least some difference between things inspired by existing media and adaptations of such.

For example, Star Wars may have been inspired by Hidden Fortress, but if it was done now, it would have been a licensed adaptation of a novel, graphic novel or TV series called Star Wars (although the name might be changed for promotional purposes).

I think the difference with the inspired media is that though they may take inspiration from something existing, they have an element of creativity in their design from whoever took the inspiration. With modern adaptations, the creativity was done by someone else. This isn't always true, but modern works by the media megacorps seem to be far more lacking in the creativity part.

 

[Btvs fan]

I would say there is at least some difference between things inspired by existing media and adaptations of such.

For example, Star Wars may have been inspired by Hidden Fortress, but if it was done now, it would have been a licensed adaptation of a novel, graphic novel or TV series called Star Wars (although the name might be changed for promotional purposes).

I think the difference with the inspired media is that though they may take inspiration from something existing, they have an element of creativity in their design from whoever took the inspiration. With modern adaptations, the creativity was done by someone else. This isn't always true, but modern works by the media megacorps seem to be far more lacking in the creativity part.

That's true 1000 x over with Disney. They brought up a load of companies that did simply to stiffle that creativity.

Bob Iger admitted in his book they brought Lucas Story Sequel Treatments, not to use but simply so he couldn't film them himself. He also said Lucas felt betrayed when he saw the Force Awakens as its not what he'd assumed would happen ie a Reboot marketed as a Sequel.

Which is why Iv always felt, when it comes to Buffy fans if they ever did get a new show they'd be disappointed. They'll be expecting a Sequel and continuation of the existing story but what they'll be getting is basically a rehash of a previous one. Now like say TFA they may at first defend it (Even Youtube grifters like Mauler who did these long videos trashing TLJ admitted he was initially excited for it after TFA!)
and think its great but on rewatch they'll find it's awful and doesn't hold up in the slightest.

 

[NotASlayer]

That's true 1000 x over with Disney. They brought up a load of companies that did simply to stiffle that creativity.

Yes, and I cannot even imagine Disney nowadays coming up with their own IP that could be used to inspire an expanded universe as big as the MCU or Star Wars. I am not even sure what properties they have created recently that aren't adaptations of an existing work/universe.