Should Angel and Spike Have Gotten Their Reflections Back?

[FellDownAlone]

Whedon seemed to have gone the rather traditional route with the setup for vampires. Sunlight, stakes, garlic, and so forth. However, while it may or may not be a concrete element in folk lore and other such things involving stories of vampires, explanations as to why vampires don't have reflections are commonly because they lack souls. So, despite Angel and Spike being vampires, when they were ensouled they should have been given back their reflections, as well. Perhaps it's simply that Whedon didn't want to take this route, but what are your thoughts?

 

[vellavu]

I think it doesn't matter. They can be taken photographs and recorded by cameras.

So just give them some iPads as mirrors.😎

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Sunlight

Interesting note that in Bram Stoker's Dracula (as with Carmilla before it) Dracula was not as adversely affected by sunlight. He was only minorly weakened, expect at noon in which he actually grew stronger in daylight.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

In Angel's first meeting with Giles, Giles noted that there was no reflection in the mirror, which heightened the terror.

When Angel and Spike were fighting over the cup of sorrows in "Destiny 5x08" , Spike threw Angel onto a cross and watched Angel get scorched, as happened to Spike in the church where he revealed to Buffy that he had a soul and draped himself over a cross:

Angel and Spike start fist-fighting. They trade punches, then Spike throws Angel up in the air, where he lands on a balcony behind him. Angel lands on a cross, which burns him, and he recoils angrily, kicking the cross down to the stage below.

SPIKE
Ha ha ha ha! Oh, yeah. Look at you. Thinking you're the big savior? Fighting for truth, justice, and soccer moms? But you still can't lay flesh on a cross without smelling like bacon, can you?

None of the other vampire attributes change when a soul is added - sunlight, fire, decapitation (as seen during a fight with Illyria), stakes, holy water all threaten a vampire. There is no reason for the reflection to return. It is a property of being undead.

 

[FellDownAlone]

In Angel's first meeting with Giles, Giles noted that there was no reflection in the mirror, which heightened the terror.

When Angel and Spike were fighting over the cup of sorrows in "Destiny 5x08" , Spike threw Angel onto a cross and watched Angel get scorched, as happened to Spike in the church where he revealed to Buffy that he had a soul and draped himself over a cross:

Angel and Spike start fist-fighting. They trade punches, then Spike throws Angel up in the air, where he lands on a balcony behind him. Angel lands on a cross, which burns him, and he recoils angrily, kicking the cross down to the stage below.

SPIKE
Ha ha ha ha! Oh, yeah. Look at you. Thinking you're the big savior? Fighting for truth, justice, and soccer moms? But you still can't lay flesh on a cross without smelling like bacon, can you?

None of the other vampire attributes change when a soul is added - sunlight, fire, decapitation (as seen during a fight with Illyria), stakes, holy water all threaten a vampire. There is no reason for the reflection to return. It is a property of being undead.

Those are also true. But, it just seems to me that by having a soul those should have been negated. If Whedon was going another route, that's fine. I'm just used to "lack of soul" element being the reason behind these occurrences. Though, the whole thing about no reflection, yet being able to take a picture bothers me.

 

[Mr Trick]

No doesn't matter either way to me. Its all about their characters for me, and this is a minor detail.

 

[FellDownAlone]

No doesn't matter either way to me. Its all about their characters for me, and this is a minor detail.

It is a minor detail, it's just something I noticed. Angel stepped behind Giles in the library without a reflection, and Angel made a comment about how not having a reflection can be missed after a hundred-plus years. Most stories I watch or read about vampires have the reasoning that a mirror is an instrument that reflects the soul, so without a soul a vampire has no reflection. However, a vampire with a soul, by this logic, should have a reflection. It's a small detail, and if Whedon was going another way about it that's fine. I was just wondering what others' opinions were. There's few "definitives" in vampire-lore.

 

[Mr Trick]

It is a minor detail, it's just something I noticed. Angel stepped behind Giles in the library without a reflection, and Angel made a comment about how not having a reflection can be missed after a hundred-plus years. Most stories I watch or read about vampires have the reasoning that a mirror is an instrument that reflects the soul, so without a soul a vampire has no reflection. However, a vampire with a soul, by this logic, should have a reflection. It's a small detail, and if Whedon was going another way about it that's fine. I was just wondering what others' opinions were. There's few "definitives" in vampire-lore.

Think you answered it in your first post. The Vampire-lore is there to be re-written certainly Buffy does it else where and I guess this is another example.

 

[cryptwarmer]

Those are also true. But, it just seems to me that by having a soul those should have been negated. If Whedon was going another route, that's fine. I'm just used to "lack of soul" element being the reason behind these occurrences. Though, the whole thing about no reflection, yet being able to take a picture bothers me.

It bothers me too. In my fan fic, no pics or videos either. And selfies..yeah, not so much.

 

[GoSpuffy]

well at least the no reflection thing explains the hair for both of them since Angel's hair sticks straight up and Spike's is radioactive blonde.

 

[bespangeled]

Whedon seemed to have gone the rather traditional route with the setup for vampires. Sunlight, stakes, garlic, and so forth.

No way Spike eats wings without garlic!

In Angel's first meeting with Giles, Giles noted that there was no reflection in the mirror, which heightened the terror.

I love that scene - Giles is so much fangirling - a watchergasm!

When Angel and Spike were fighting over the cup of sorrows in "Destiny 5x08" , Spike threw Angel onto a cross and watched Angel get scorched, as happened to Spike in the church where he revealed to Buffy that he had a soul and draped himself over a cross:

Yeah - but crosses are interesting in that universe. Haven't pinned it down yet. Angel does, in that very episode, seems far more affected then Spike in terms of pain and smoke. In fact, overall, Angel seems more sensitive to crosses.

 

[GoSpuffy]

maybe the better soul has more power from the cross? Liam wouldn't have been a church goer but I'm sure William escorted his Mum to church every Sunday, especially if it meant getting a peak at Cecily in another pew.

 

[bespangeled]

maybe the better soul has more power from the cross? Liam wouldn't have been a church goer but I'm sure William escorted his Mum to church every Sunday, especially if it meant getting a peak at Cecily in another pew.

Or the Catholic soul from the 1700's give more of the fear of God than the Protestant one a hundred years later. The real question is why Jews, Hindus, or atheists?

 

[GoSpuffy]

Or the Catholic soul from the 1700's give more of the fear of God than the Protestant one a hundred years later. The real question is why Jews, Hindus, or atheists?

You've got me there. You'd think a cross would only work on a Christian vampire but that has never been stated. And why are no other religious relics like a star of david or a kirpan mentioned in vampire lore? I guess that's just bad story telling handed much like white privilege. Since I don't belong to a religion I can't answer this one!

 

[bespangeled]

You've got me there. You'd think a cross would only work on a Christian vampire but that has never been stated. And why are no other religious relics like a star of david or a kirpan mentioned in vampire lore? I guess that's just bad story telling handed much like white privilege. Since I don't belong to a religion I can't answer this one!

From what I've seen, the cross is a pretty ancient symbol - pre-dates Christianity. So I tend to believe that the problem comes from the earliest times. But the beliefs of the individual vamp may have some effect.

 

[Samuel Reyes]

You can actually see Angel's reflection at the end of the title sequence.