Ten Reasons Why Buffy Is Better Off With Spike Than She Is With Angel

Well, you were the first to use italics, my dear, so I was just having a bit of fun with you. I appreciate your points and the lively discussion. I did not realise you were a Spike fan b.c. I can't keep track of everything and everyone on the board. But, duly noted.
 
RachM said:
Making the decision without telling Buffy wasn't great, but he basically had to make the decision on the spot, no time to tell anyone anything.
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No, he already made the decision before going there. "I know. I couldn't tell you. I wasn't sure - if I could do it if I woke up with you one more morning."
 
merzki said:
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No, he already made the decision before going there. "I know. I couldn't tell you. I wasn't sure - if I could do it if I woke up with you one more morning."
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Even so, it's still his decision to make and doesn't remove Buffy's agency at all.
 
RachM said:
Even so, it's still his decision to make and doesn't remove Buffy's agency at all.
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Completely true. But coming back into her life the way he did….HELL NO from me.

I felt at times he thought his getting a soul gave him a ‘special pass’.

He felt so righteous lol
 
RachM
RachM
I mean, Buffy was the one who turned up in LA to see Angel, then the events happen, so he didnt just "come back into her life" 🤷‍♀️
NoShip said:
In S5 her "belief" is desperation. In S6 it is a trauma-bond. In S7 it is codependence. In S2 & S3 & S4 she is trying to kill him.
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Agree completely. None of Buffy’s relationships worked out well in the show not just due to the men but also due to Buffy. She was a teenage girl trying to live a normal life while also feeling unwanted by her father and traumatized from her relationship with Angelus.

This made it easier for Spike to prey on her. James even revealed that he thought there an attraction between Buffy and Spike the first time he saw her at The Bronze. She was a minor then.

It is no surprise why Spuffy was ultimately very toxic.

If Spike really ‘saw her’ for who she is he’d stop harping on about that and leave her alone.

Buffy needs therapy, not a man.

Team single Buffy.
 
SavvyScoobie said:
Agree completely. None of Buffy’s relationships worked out well in the show not just due to the men but also due to Buffy. She was a teenage girl trying to live a normal life while also feeling unwanted by her father and traumatized from her relationship with Angelus.

This made it easier for Spike to prey on her. James even revealed that he thought there an attraction between Buffy and Spike the first time he saw her at The Bronze. She was a minor then.

It is no surprise why Spuffy was ultimately very toxic.

If Spike really ‘saw her’ for who she is he’d stop harping on about that and leave her alone.

Buffy needs therapy, not a man.

Team single Buffy.
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so... every man who ever saw the woman he liked later in life before she was an adult is some kind of pervert? That would be a lot of decent guys.... the Spike of School Hard and the Spike who did the torch routine in the hellmouth were world's apart. I don't think that caring for Buffy as an adult woman makes him a pervert.

BTW, if seeing Buffy during School Hard makes Spike a pervert retroactively, then Angel is an actual pervert b/c he got involved with Buffy at that point.

It's my opinion that NEITHER were perverts and that the pervert talk is mostly people who hate the ship in question. I am so tired of it.
 
DeepBlueJoy said:
so... every man who ever saw the woman he liked later in life before she was an adult is some kind of pervert? That would be a lot of decent guys.... the Spike of School Hard and the Spike who did the torch routine in the hellmouth were world's apart. I don't think that caring for Buffy as an adult woman makes him a pervert.
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Not exactly every man but we have to put this in the context of Spike.

Spike is a creep. His s5 antics prove that.

His attraction to her felt like a buildup from s2 to me.

DeepBlueJoy said:
BTW, if seeing Buffy during School Hard makes Spike a pervert retroactively, then Angel is an actual pervert b/c he got involved with Buffy at that point.
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I do not like either Angel or Spike as a love interest for Buffy.

DeepBlueJoy said:
It's my opinion that NEITHER were perverts and that the pervert talk is mostly people who hate the ship in question. I am so tired of it.
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No it’s backed up by the way Spike is literally a pervert. Didn’t he steal Buffy’s panties?

Not too surprising people would hate the ship. It is very toxic.

I personally think it’s entertaining to watch, and find myself rooting for Spuffy more…butttt ultimately cannot bring myself to be a die hard Spuffy.

You could say I’m a casual viewer of Spike and Buffy.
 
Btvs fan said:
It does because it literally takes away her memory of the event
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No, it doesn't.

The Oracles literally turn back time, sending Angel back a day, so he can kill the Mohra demon before it infects him.

The Buffy who leaves Angel's office never lived the day that Angel remembers, therefore her memory is intact.
 
DeepBlueJoy said:
so... every man who ever saw the woman he liked later in life before she was an adult is some kind of pervert? That would be a lot of decent guys....
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If a guy in his late twenties sees a 16 year old and thinks that he wants her, even if he waits until she is legal before persuing her, that guy is a pervert. And a lot of decent guys have been proven to be perverts.


DeepBlueJoy said:
the Spike of School Hard and the Spike who did the torch routine in the hellmouth were world's apart.
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I wouldn't be so sure of that.

S5 Spike: Entitled, Manipulative, Violent Stalker Scum.
S6 Spike: Entitled, Manipulative, Violent Abuser Scum.
S7 Spike: Entitled, Manipulative, Gaslighting Douche.

S2 Spike is shrewd, strategic, brutal, evil. Even when helping Buffy. This is an awesome Spike.
S3 Spike is a terrifying, evil loser.
S4 Spike is the best Spike. Handicapped, angry, determined to "Savage The Land" again. Hilariously evil. The peak season.
 
NoShip said:
If a guy in his late twenties sees a 16 year old and thinks that he her, even if he waits until she is legal before persuing her, that guy is a pervert. And a lot of decent guys have been proven to be perverts.




I wouldn't be so sure of that.

S5 Spike: Entitled, Manipulative, Violent Stalker Scum.
S6 Spike: Entitled, Manipulative, Violent Abuser Scum.
S7 Spike: Entitled, Manipulative, Gaslighting Douche.

S2 Spike is shrewd, strategic, brutal, evil. Even when helping Buffy. This is an awesome Spike.
S3 Spike is a terrifying, evil loser.
S4 Spike is the best Spike. Handicapped, angry, determined to "Savage The Land" again. Hilariously evil. The peak season.
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You realise thats what happened with Angel. The only reason the show got away with it was because SMG was 19yr rather than the 16 yr old character she played otherwise...
 
Btvs fan said:
You realise thats what happened with Angel. The only reason the show got away with it was because SMG was 19yr rather than the 16 yr old character she played otherwise...
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No the show also got away with it because of how normal pedo behavior is.

Mind you this was made in the late 90s; a time full of creeps and older men dating underage girls
 
Sorry, humans notice humans of their sexual preference. This does NOT mean they want to sleep with those not yet of age. There is a big difference between only noticing a 16 year old is attractive and being a pervert. I think the world has a lot of horrribles with actual sexual predators.

I really wish that people would not get so bent about it. I know there is a huge amount of hate in both ships. I wish it was not so.

At 30 years, the community is small. The buffyverse is a work of fiction. I really hope we can quit tarring the "enemy" (who loves "that other ship") with the demon brush of perversion.

If you truly believe that the buffyverse was full of perversion why are you a fan?
 
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