Article The ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ Storyline That Ruined a Great Season

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

There was so much promise for Season 4 until the initiative came along.

"When it comes to teen-centric shows they’ve got quite a lot going for them. For one, they are never short on drama, and often feature the most bizarre storylines you can imagine. There’s usually an emotionally charged relationship or love triangle. Plus they’re extremely bingeable, and never lack in entertainment. Buffy the Vampire Slayer is no different, it’s full of juicy drama, has plenty of relationships to root for or against, and is chock-full of bizarre storylines that include the likes of vampires and demons. Not to mention the fashion is totally killer! But there is a downside to all teen shows, one that never fails to throw a wrench into a successful series; the natural transition from high school to college..."

Full article here.

Thoughts?

 

[Cohen]

I mean, It’s a choice to attack Season 4 because of the initiative storyline by saying “it took time away from the main characters,” as if season 7 and the mini slayers never happened.

 

[Btvs fan]

I thought the first half of Season 4 up to Hush was fine. Great run of episodes.
I even thought Seth Green leaving helped the show tremendously too.
Where it fell down was in the 2nd half replacing Maggie with Adam. Sanitising Rileys character (he's the 2nd in Command yet he's completely innocent and knows nothing common) and making him the love interest despite the obvious lack of chemistry with the main lead.
Spike and Anya and Giles and Xander were basically reduced to a scene per week.
Willow did have screen time but it was with Tara and boring as hell.


Honestly Season 3 was not perfect and they'd mined the High School years as much as possible. I think the problem was keeping the core group. You could've killed Xander off and not missed anything. Willows enstragment and heel turn with Buffy should've happened sooner and longer.

Instead you just had huge collections of characters that weren't doing anything particularly interesting and just hanging about.

 

[Taake]

Where it fell down was in the 2nd half replacing Maggie with Adam. Sanitising Rileys character (he's the 2nd in Command yet he's completely innocent and knows nothing common) and making him the love interest despite the obvious lack of chemistry with the main lead.
Spike and Anya and Giles and Xander were basically reduced to a scene per week.
Willow did have screen time but it was with Tara and boring as hell.

Except for the fact that I do think that Buffy and Riley had fine chemistry, I agree with this.

It is sad that the actress playing Maggie chose to leave, because the tone of the Initiative shifted, where before it was quite menacing, now it became background noise for Frankenstein's Monster hijinks.

Riley also should have been a more sinister character, as mentioned, he's second in command and he's clean as apple pie and a glass of milk? I get it, they'd done evil boyfriend already, but Riley didn't have to be evil, just more morally grey (or a lot lower in the ranks). He starts dating Buffy and then he's all "I'm an anarchist" and questions everything he's worked for and with the last couple of years? It would have been more interesting if he hadn't given up on The Initiative so quickly, if he'd had actual convictions, and if we had seen him in a more compromised position. (Later when he returns they kind of blame all the badness on Maggie Walsh and not the organisation itself, which also seems like a cop out to make Riley's choice more acceptable)

Spike and Anya are both being tried out as a Cordelia replacement and it wears thin, it is clear they don't really know what to do with these characters that they've introduced to the main cast, while also struggling about what to do with the actual main cast (Xander and Giles). The season could've benefited from a tighter focus on the mains, maybe bringing in Spike, Anya, Tara, and Riley in one season was a bit much, but The Initiative as a main villain theme isn't bad. A little bit ludicrious perhaps, but not bad.

It is a season with some growing pains, but while tweaks could've been made, overall it's fine and The Initiative plot definitely isn't its greatest weakness.

Also, it's funny when I've been watching some BtVS reactions, younger viewers seem totally on board with The Initiative and love the plot. Maybe that says something about what people nowadays think or assume about the government and what seems like plausible clandestine activties.

 

[NotASlayer]

I like season four a lot and I don't think the Initiative storyline ruined the season. Mostly because I think that storyline was too weak to ruin anything. Apart from perhaps six Initiative-focused episodes - The Initiative, The I in Team, Goodbye Iowa, New Moon Rising, The Yoko Factor and Primeval (and the last two are debatable in some ways as they are Adam/Spike-focused) - they could easily be stripped out of most of the other episodes they appear in without problem. The season has a lot of individually fun/good episodes, including the Faith two-parter.

Adam may not be a great villain - though he verged into cold ham territory frequently and his flat "Oh." in Primeval I find hilarious - but seasons six and seven showed we could do much, much worse.

Perhaps the biggest issue the Initiative arc caused was with Spike's chip, and that was a problem for seasons 5-7, not this one. Spike got the chip, which made him no physical threat to the Scoobies. However, his arc in the season showed that this did not make him care for them, make him a friend or really anything but a reluctant ally - and Spike bluntly told them that - nor did it mean he wasn't a threat, finally showing in The Yoko Factor and Primeval that even a chipped Spike could still get everyone killed. And after this great arc showing that Spike was still a danger, the show capped it off... by completely ignoring it.

 

[Btvs fan]

Except for the fact that I do think that Buffy and Riley had fine chemistry, I agree with this.

It is sad that the actress playing Maggie chose to leave, because the tone of the Initiative shifted, where before it was quite menacing, now it became background noise for Frankenstein's Monster hijinks.

Riley also should have been a more sinister character, as mentioned, he's second in command and he's clean as apple pie and a glass of milk? I get it, they'd done evil boyfriend already, but Riley didn't have to be evil, just more morally grey (or a lot lower in the ranks). He starts dating Buffy and then he's all "I'm an anarchist" and questions everything he's worked for and with the last couple of years? It would have been more interesting if he hadn't given up on The Initiative so quickly, if he'd had actual convictions, and if we had seen him in a more compromised position. (Later when he returns they kind of blame all the badness on Maggie Walsh and not the organisation itself, which also seems like a cop out to make Riley's choice more acceptable)

Spike and Anya are both being tried out as a Cordelia replacement and it wears thin, it is clear they don't really know what to do with these characters that they've introduced to the main cast, while also struggling about what to do with the actual main cast (Xander and Giles). The season could've benefited from a tighter focus on the mains, maybe bringing in Spike, Anya, Tara, and Riley in one season was a bit much, but The Initiative as a main villain theme isn't bad. A little bit ludicrious perhaps, but not bad.

It is a season with some growing pains, but while tweaks could've been made, overall it's fine and The Initiative plot definitely isn't its greatest weakness.

Also, it's funny when I've been watching some BtVS reactions, younger viewers seem totally on board with The Initiative and love the plot. Maybe that says something about what people nowadays think or assume about the government and what seems like plausible clandestine activties.

The actress in her Buffering interview said it was Joss who informed her she was being killed off not her choosing to leave.

Joss was never above twisting the narrative to deflect blame. Tim Minear said the real reason they went to Pylea was because Joss was bored with the Darla arc but it was put out that it was due to Julie Benz lack of availability.

I think he'd gotten bored or simply wasn't sure how to progress it, plus Adam gives something for Buffy to hit that you can't really do with Maggie. They had a similar problem with the First in Season 7 which was why they brought Caleb in

Post automatically merged: Nov 7, 2023

I like season four a lot and I don't think the Initiative storyline ruined the season. Mostly because I think that storyline was too weak to ruin anything. Apart from perhaps six Initiative-focused episodes - The Initiative, The I in Team, Goodbye Iowa, New Moon Rising, The Yoko Factor and Primeval (and the last two are debatable in some ways as they are Adam/Spike-focused) - they could easily be stripped out of most of the other episodes they appear in without problem. The season has a lot of individually fun/good episodes, including the Faith two-parter.

Adam may not be a great villain - though he verged into cold ham territory frequently and his flat "Oh." in Primeval I find hilarious - but seasons six and seven showed we could do much, much worse.

Perhaps the biggest issue the Initiative arc caused was with Spike's chip, and that was a problem for seasons 5-7, not this one. Spike got the chip, which made him no physical threat to the Scoobies. However, his arc in the season showed that this did not make him care for them, make him a friend or really anything but a reluctant ally - and Spike bluntly told them that - nor did it mean he wasn't a threat, finally showing in The Yoko Factor and Primeval that even a chipped Spike could still get everyone killed. And after this great arc showing that Spike was still a danger, the show capped it off... by completely ignoring it.

They doubled down on it in Season 5. In Episode 4 Out of My Mind. Spike betrays and tries to kill Buffy and Riley and the Initiative Doctor in getting his chip out. What happens nothing.
Forget Buffy, Riley had already said he had no problem killing him but didn't fir reasons. Even after he catches him sniffing Buffys sweater !!!
In Listening to Fear the Government break into Buffys House. You'd think Spike would be afraid. Not a bit
Into the woods Fake staking Nuff said
In Crush Buffy finds out he's got a stalker shrine. He chained her up and threatened to kill her.
What does she do... nothing

 

[NotASlayer]

That fake stake! I mean, Riley had literally just staked a vampire - Sandy - he had no feelings for one way or another, and Spike, who he has no reason to like, he goes to all the trouble of finding a plastic stake for. Spike's a vampire; it's not like you'd need to hide the body!

If I was in Buffy's place, no way would Spike have survived Crush. Even if I hadn't killed him already. Like, for endangering my then boyfriend in an attempt to kill me.

 

[Taake]

The actress in her Buffering interview said it was Joss who informed her she was being killed off not her choosing to leave.

Really? I had no idea. Well that's bad then, what a bad call. She was great and the role would've been so interesting to explore, her twisted relationship to both Adam and Riley would've been better than Adam running around learning about stuff or whatever.

 

[fauxindigo]

I don't think the Initiative storyline overshadowed anything- it just pales in comparison to the emotional impact of Angelus, Spike, Drusilla or Faith (and the mayor by extension) as big bads. I think as an overarching big bad the Initiative is comparable to Wolfram & Hart on Angel as you get the sense it's much bigger than the one outpost we're seeing in the series; we know W&H has branches all over the world, the Initiative is just as big of a threat as it's the government and as seen in Season 8, it comes back in a big way as antagonists to Buffy & the slayers. Anyway, the reason it fell flat is because Lindsay Crouse screwed over the job of playing Professor Walsh for some other role, so the writers had to write her character out when SHE was supposed to be the big bad. Adam was basically supposed to be her demon lackey (or escaped Frankenstein science experiment anyway) like The Judge was for Spike, Dru & Angelus in s2. The mad scientist/evil college professor Walsh would've made more of an impact, emotionally as well, than the "terminator w/o the bashful charm" Adam as the big bad of S4 but it is what it is. I appreciate though that the initiative under U.C. Sunnydale is shut down but the threat of the government still looms.

 

[TheXandyman]

Walsh was great but then they went and replaced her with Adam who had less charisma than Terminator. James Cameron should have written season 4 - seeing Buffy facing off with an army of Terminators would have been way better!

 

[NotASlayer]

@VampireSlayer07 Yes, it became impossible to take Spike seriously after that. Crush is just one of the times that Spike should have been staked (or, preferably, as I actually like him, run out of town and onto Angel). The correct answer to Spike's question "Well, yeah. Did it work?" in Primeval is "Nope."

 

[Bop]

The Initiative did let season 4 down but it was also supposed to be the main storyline and big bad so yeah if it's not good that will ruin the season overall. I think we were supposed to care about the initiative because of Riley and his connection to Buffy but that's not a relationship that many seem to care about in the fandom so it didn't work.
But there are some great standalone episodes.

 

[VampireSlayer07]

@VampireSlayer07 Yes, it became impossible to take Spike seriously after that. Crush is just one of the times that Spike should have been staked (or, preferably, as I actually like him, run out of town and onto Angel). The correct answer to Spike's question "Well, yeah. Did it work?" in Primeval is "Nope."

That'd be hilarious if Buffy had said that right before staking him. Then as he turns to dust she tells her friends, "Okay, let's go home."

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

While the initiative & the big bad were weak points of this season, I think that S4 had some of the best character development & stand alone episodes.
So for me personally, I find that this season is generally more re-watchable than season 5. Which I generally rate higher

 

[hoponlilmama]

Putting aside Walsh being killed off - I think Adam lacked the viciousness of a Big Bad. I think if it were written a little differently, he may have had more of an impact. We got too much of him contemplating what he was, and talking too much about 'Mother'.

I guess looking back on the series you can see the sudden removal of a character (Walsh) causes an obvious pivot in the writing and storylines.

Still like s4 though!

 

[NoShip]

That fake stake! I mean, Riley had literally just staked a vampire - Sandy - he had no feelings for one way or another, and Spike, who he has no reason to like, he goes to all the trouble of finding a plastic stake for. Spike's a vampire; it's not like you'd need to hide the body!

If I was in Buffy's place, no way would Spike have survived Crush. Even if I hadn't killed him already. Like, for endangering my then boyfriend in an attempt to kill me.

It gets better..... In Buffy v Drac, just three months aftet Spike helped kill 50+ of his friends and colleagues, Riley enters Spikes crypt and they ..... converse! Riley hits Spike up for info on Drac and ..... leaves.

I am always amazed by the people who look a Buffy as some kind of incredibly well written masterpiece. I LOVE Buffy, but, while it is really good, it is no masterpiece and Whedon is no master writer.

 

[Btvs fan]

It gets better..... In Buffy v Drac, just three months aftet Spike helped kill 50+ of his friends and colleagues, Riley enters Spikes crypt and they ..... converse! Riley hits Spike up for info on Drac and ..... leaves.

I am always amazed by the people who look a Buffy as some kind of incredibly well written masterpiece. I LOVE Buffy, but, while it is really good, it is no masterpiece and Whedon is no master writer.

Riley in that episode says he has no problem killing Spike now he's helpless. So you think after Out of zmy Mind he'd do that ???

Whedon always focused on the moment rather than any continuity. Look at Chosen, he wanted the hole in the desert, so never mind Sunnydale was by the coast with its own beach and docks he wanted that hole. Even on the DVD Commentary he says Don't tell anyone that about why the Uber Vamps are suddenly so easy to kill.

Even in early years he used to press the reset button all the time. The first few episodes of season 3 were essentially a giant reset of Becoming.

Or OMWF. Xander summoned Sweet because he wanted the Be Your Queen joke, nothing more.

 

[NotASlayer]

Much as I like Spike, I think keeping him as main cast post-Primeval was a major mistake. He kept, pretty much literally, getting away with murder whilst contributing almost nothing to help the Scoobies. It made him a very hard character to take seriously ("Oh look! Spike's been bad again! What will happen to him? Oh, nothing.") and made Buffy (and others) look bad. Verging on too dumb to live.

 

[Btvs fan]

Much as I like Spike, I think keeping him as main cast post-Primeval was a major mistake. He kept, pretty much literally, getting away with murder whilst contributing almost nothing to help the Scoobies. It made him a very hard character to take seriously ("Oh look! Spike's been bad again! What will happen to him? Oh, nothing.") and made Buffy (and others) look bad. Verging on too dumb to live.

At the time there was talk from James and David Fury about having him move to Angel and be the villain there. Though I'm honestly not sure how long it would've lasted. DB towers over JM so it never had the same look as when he was fighting Buffy. See In the Dark where he attacked Angel witn a 2by4 and gets beaten up.

What kept him on Buffy was the characters popularity. Many people watched the show just for him and a number of the Buffy regulars were not terribly interesting in S5.
JM also had amazing chemistry with SMG too and they got on well with each other personally.

I remember being online on the Cross and Stake and other boards at the time and I can't stress how most of the conversations were about Spike.

Hell it's what got Angel a Season 5. The fact he was being brought in.
What's ironic is that it's clear Joss didn't care for the character personally and had a number of shots taken at him (ie Destiny Souled Spike having sex with Harmony) but recognised the audience popularity for him so kept him around

 

[hoponlilmama]

It gets better..... In Buffy v Drac, just three months aftet Spike helped kill 50+ of his friends and colleagues, Riley enters Spikes crypt and they ..... converse! Riley hits Spike up for info on Drac and ..... leaves.

I am always amazed by the people who look a Buffy as some kind of incredibly well written masterpiece. I LOVE Buffy, but, while it is really good, it is no masterpiece and Whedon is no master writer.

It is well written, but is it a masterpiece? Definitely not. It would still make my 'desert island' watch list.

Not the only show to suffer from plot armour, some silly story-writing, and pandering to an audience.