Unforgivable Plot Lines

[Taake]

Now moving back to Cangel, yes I did bring up the fact that it tends to be the Bangels that have a heavy dislike of Cangel. Because it's literally true. The same is true the other way around, by the way. I think both sides can be a little biased because of their 'allegiance', which shouldn't be that difficult to believe. The difference is that as a Cangel, I don't hate Bangel. However, I will bring up the ship's flaws if you are crapping over the Cangel ship. Has it gotten to a point on BB where we can't even debate over each other's opinion?

I think it's perfectly okay to not like Cangel whether you are a Bangel or not. But that doesn't mean people, like me, can't criticize your perspective and rationale (like Topher did with mine above). It's also totally legitimate to underline the fact that Bangels tend to be biased against Cangel in general because its existence makes Bangel unlikely.

Of course you can criticize my perspective and rationale, but you did so by bringing up another ship. This wasn't about a ship war.
(But I am testy, I just posted an appreciation of Pride and Prejudice 2005 and got crapped all over by the 1995 lovers. Now I am one of the 1995 lovers, and it drives me crazy when you can't say one positive thing about 2005 without 1995 being brought into it.) Similarly, you can't even breathe a word of negativity towards Cangel, without Bangel being brought up.

Bangel wasn't even a thing for most of Angel, except for IWRY and some mentions, but really, the character has moved away from that ship and his relationships after IWRY are pretty separate from Bangel if you ask me. I don't watch Angel thinking much about Bangel at all. On the topic of Cangel I feel more upset it robbed us of a relationship with Gwen Raiden rather than anything with Buffy.

That's why I got annoyed, because yes, one can debate each other's opinion, but when you just assumed what my opinion was based on shipping, it felt frustrating and again, it wasn't meant as a shipping battle.

They definitely didn't speed-run Cordy's character arc. I didn't like her character in BtVS and I slowly learned to like her on Angel as she grew and matured. There were definitely speed-bumps for her character arc (for example, 'To Shanshu in L.A.') where some bigger jumps were made, but that's pretty much how it happens in real life too. Usually big events happen to a person that force them to make choices that change them. The only section of the story where Cordelia's character progression was off was during season 4, and we know why that was the case.

I don't have much more to say about the Cordy/Wes and Angel/Wes topic. I just didn't see it like you did. Cordy and Wes didn't really have any big, meaningful moments in the show, at least that I can remember of (the Bangel scene is less about them and more about the show poking fun at the melodramatic Bangel ship). Even Gunn had a few special scenes with Cordelia. Meanwhile, Angel and Wes had something right from the get go, and even through—and past—the separation they always showed respect for each other. Pretty beautiful, actually. I think it's a big reason why Angel was so angry, because it was WESLEY that 'betrayed' him.

I disagree on that they didn't speed-run Cordy. She had development up until about half way through season 2 for me, and To Shanshu in LA was a big jump but convincing. But by season 3 they have put her on the fast track to somehow become remotely convincing as being chosen to be a "higher being", which is not at all convincing. I'm too tired to write more cogently about this right now honestly, but there are old posts out there on it. Not to mention her sudden and bizarre glowy power that cleanses Connor. Things that are put on the character to make her more "heroic" but that doesn't actually come from Cordy. Oh well.

Guess one can only agree to disagree, I thought end of season 1 and all of season 2 shows are really stead friendship between Cordy and Wes, and Gunn later, especially when Angel fires them all. I never thought Angel was so angry because it was Wesley especially, I never thought they trusted each other that much. As a vampire old watcher dynamic was always at play.

But any way, different strokes.