Warren shouldn't be hated as much as he is

[thetopher]

It harks back to this. Believe me, it wasn't humorous at the time.

Humor in the face of the threat of a tyrannical police state is actually a thing, keeps one sane in insane times.

Have you any idea what it felt like to think you could be next...or to wonder whether the murderer was your father or your brother.

I guess if you demonize and dehumanize an entire gender by saying 'any man could....' then I would say that you get what you get.
And statistically speaking I am in far more danger from men that you.

Btw equating one murder now that sparked a wave of madness with a terrifying serial killer almost 50 years ago is manipulative and kind of gross.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Warren is never riddled with guilt or the idea that he really wants something unobtainable. He is not looking for redemption. This is refreshing. Others are facing the hopeless task of getting forgiveness from people they have killed but Warren forges ahead with his plans and is cheerful about it.

 

[Cyberdemon]

Xander wanted Cordelia to fall mindlessly in love with him so he could cruelly dump her.

my bad i kinda forgot that lmao

 

[thrasherpix]

In terms of potential, Xander's spell was far more dangerous (so was that jacket that magically appeared in season 7 but apparently didn't work in earlier seasons), though Tara and Willow do give him a run for his money in seasons 5 and 6. However, Xander refused to exploit it for sex and didn't want a slave as Warren, so Warren is more evil in his motivations while Xander was reckless and petty (and also tried to undo the damage, unlike Warren, once he realized how serious it was).

 

[Dora]

Yes, as should Johnathon who knew Buffy for a long time even giving her the class protector award , never understood Andrew not only the nasties he did to Buffy but murdering his best friend , why was he not handed into the police or at least die a hero ?

 

[thetopher]

Others are facing the hopeless task of getting forgiveness from people they have killed but Warren forges ahead with his plans and is cheerful about it.

There's a value to bad guys who revel in their evil or who aren't particularly plagued by a conscience; that's why people enjoyed watching Ethan Rayne, Sahjhan or Lilah Morgan. The difference is is that these character are competent, witty, dangerous and can be seen as worthy foils for our heroes.

Warren isn't; he's mostly incompetent-for most of his run as big bad he's on the run from Buffy, hiding out and whining- and his master plan involve knocking over armored cars and beating up high school bullies.
I find his flavor of evil is pathetic rather than refreshing.

 

[Buffy Summers]

If you thought the murderer was your father or brother, then that shows a complete lack of trust in your family members which suggests there are bigger issues at play in that scenario.

Leave the personal comments out, please. There is no reason to make a statement like that here.

hysterical woke whiners

You have been spoken to about this type of statement before.

Why don't you pose a question about Warren to get people back on topic?

Or you could just, you know, stay on topic.

Your tone makes you sound a little snippy.

There is no reason to say this to a new member. If you think someone has posted inappropriately, please report it and the staff will look at it.

 

[Faded90]

There's a value to bad guys who revel in their evil or who aren't particularly plagued by a conscience; that's why people enjoyed watching Ethan Rayne, Sahjhan or Lilah Morgan. The difference is is that these character are competent, witty, dangerous and can be seen as worthy foils for our heroes.

Warren isn't; he's mostly incompetent-for most of his run as big bad he's on the run from Buffy, hiding out and whining- and his master plan involve knocking over armored cars and beating up high school bullies.
I find his flavor of evil is pathetic rather than refreshing.

There’s little gravitas in his storyline because even Buffy and the scoobies barely acknowledge them as villains. They for very little reason other than their egos place themselves as her apparent arch nemesis. Except they’d have actually been successful if they’d just carried on doing what they were doing while barely catching her attention. Their big goal is the bank robbery, something I don’t think that would have ever came up on Buffy’s radar. There’s nothing complex about him as a villain, he has no internal conflict or plan that actually involves Buffy or the scoobies at all. The trio are mostly just plot devices used for certain episodes like Life Serial and Normal Again

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Leave the personal comments out, please. There is no reason to make a statement like that here

I used you in the general sense of you, not you as in the personal you. However, I can see how it could be interpreted that way which was unintentional.

You have been spoken to about this type of statement before.

Apologies.

There is no reason to say this to a new member. If you think someone has posted inappropriately, please report it and the staff will look at it.

I wasn't sure which is why I asked them the genuine question of if that was the case or if I was just reading the tone wrong. Turns out I had read the tone wrong. I don't want to report someone for doing nothing wrong.

 

[katmobile]

It's more complex than Warren being boring it was the mundanity of evil that made him repellent. Ethan wasn't evil for the sake of it he just liked chaos and didn't particularly care who got hurt, Glory was evil but her goal wasn't really she just wanted to go home where she felt she belonged, Warren's goals are mudane but they're still selfish and he's ruthless in their pursuit he's just willing to use Jonathan and Andrew and hoodwink them.

 

[Paulrina]

At least Faith is badass and brave

Spike and Xander are funny

Willow is cool, and helpful

Angel is interesting and complex.

This characters has redeeming qualities and memorable moments unlike Warren who is just annoying.Thats why He gets deserving hate.

 

[Angelkiss]

Warren got his rocks off by turning April into a would be sex slave, to almost always service him then whe he wanted and allowed it Andrew and Johnathan. Willy was right when she said He Oood when he killed April and his big O would have been Buffy. He enjoyed killing, his misogynistic ways, getting even for getting beaten and mistreated by seniors. There was no remorse or regret he relished what he did, he felt the world owed him, money, respect everything he stole lied and cheated to get. Warren is worthless and weak and evil incarnate.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Too bad we didn't have had a crossover that paired him with Lilah. Improbable, I know, but having two people together, Warren with no moral compass and Lilah who deliberately demagnetized hers would make for interesting possibilities. Being part of the Jossverse, this would probably end up in a fatality, but who would still be standing afterwards? After all, Warren was not an incel - he managed to snag a hottie like Katrina Silber, maybe through magic, but he still had a girl before. Lilah would see him as an interesting subject who was maxxed out on the psychopathy scale. The only question is: do we call the ship Warlah ot Lilen?

 

[thrasherpix]

I keep being curious what would happen if Billy touched Warren. Since Waren embraced his misogyny, would it mean that Billy's power would have almost no effect on him as it had little to bring up? Or would it instead make me some raging psycho that would impress even demons?

I guess it depends on what you think of human nature. If the writer was being honest about believing all men had innate misogyny no matter what (and I don't automatically assume he is), then Warren should show no real signs of Billy's touch (at least no more than getting drunk to remove social inhibitions would), unless it was someone he was genuinely conflicted about as Katrina.

 

[Angelkiss]

Warren got his rocks off by turning April into a would be sex slave, to almost always service him then whe he wanted and allowed it Andrew and Johnathan. Willy was right when she said He Oood when he killed April and his big O would have been Buffy. He enjoyed killing, his misogynistic ways, getting even for getting beaten and mistreated by seniors. There was no remorse or regret he relished what he did, he felt the world owed him, money, respect everything he stole lied and cheated to get. Warren is worthless and weak and evil incarnate.

I did mean Katrina thank you @AlphaFoxtrot however I do think he did abuse and kill April, not in the physical sense but she was always at his beck and call did whatever he wanted and gave him companionship and love. That wasn't enough he wanted to control her and tell her what he wanted she handed it to him. Warren apparently didn't like that, and even though she was a fembot she did seem to die of a broken heart he let her power down or her power run out without any concern for her. Didn't say he was sorry for what he had down, how he left her for her to find him. He just was cold with her I think.

 

[Mott1]

I've just started watching Adam Busch in The Jury (post-Buffy legal series), where he plays a jokey, almost Xander-like character, which probably won't endear him any more to those who hated both Mr Mears & the X-man!

Warren's a curious character in the Buffy-verse, as a previous poster said, there are parallels with Billy, which was one of the creepiest Angel episodes, and a crucial turning point for Wesley. On my rewatch of s6 I note that Warren's evil deeds do mirror Willow's. By the end of the series, Dark Willow notes that "It's about the power", something that 'Red' feared she wouldn't have. He started off in s5 as a man whose desire for companionship became corrupted by the repeated blows to the ego through 'losing' to women, and the bullying he'd endured also contributed to him becoming an incel. Like the wiccan, once he'd tasted power, his need for it (and his bad deeds) escalated.

I'm not totally sure he's completely irredeemable - he was initially reluctant to build the Buffybot for Spike after the mayhem caused by April, and we don't know he wouldn't have repented as Willow didn't let him. I find the clear attempts to show him as utterly obnoxious and therefore deserving to be tortured and killed as uncomfortable as the infamous Spuffy scene in the previous episode. But what I do think worked well was the idea that the amused dismissal of the trio by Buffy & co (partly due to their self-involvement that season) indirectly led to the horrific events of the last episodes. Either way, he's an appropriate antagonist for this most inward of seasons.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Sorry, he deserves his hate. Some of what the scoobies deserves judgment too, though some of it was done without a soul or while possessed. Their horribles should have been dealt with.

Adam is the complete human evilness package. Lack of empathy, willing to take whatver he wants from anyone without regard to consequences. Grandiose, cruel, taking easure in the pain of others - there is no other being in the Buffyverse quite as unsympathetic.

The only other entity that has no redeeming positive characteristics is the First Evil.

Even the villains. Some have no souls. Some clearly show ability to care about others. Spike and Dru loved each other. The Mayor cared about Faith. Even the wicked ones often had a sense of humour. Even the Master formed attachments ts to his vampire children. All the scoobies do many good things.

Warren is just a creep. He is nasty to his 'friends' - he obviously views them as expendable. He is voldemort and umbridge with less charm. Petty, mean & revengeful & loved control over others.

Too bad we didn't have had a crossover that paired him with Lilah. Improbable, I know, but having two people together, Warren with no moral compass and Lilah who deliberately demagnetized hers would make for interesting possibilities. Being part of the Jossverse, this would probably end up in a fatality, but who would still be standing afterwards? After all, Warren was not an incel - he managed to snag a hottie like Katrina Silber, maybe through magic, but he still had a girl before. Lilah would see him as an interesting subject who was maxxed out on the psychopathy scale. The only question is: do we call the ship Warlah ot Lilen?

He had a total incel heart & mind and overwhelming, mindless contempt and resentful for anyone not him. He is pure poison and insipid to boot.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Yeah, no. Warren is an incel, rapist and a misogynist, and he deserves all the hate he gets.

And OP? For your reference, here is an interesting article on Warren.

 

[twoslayers]

A lot of characters in Buffy are murderers. But Warren is human, not under a magical influence, not as far as we know mentally ill (unlike probably Faith), he's just an evil person. That's why he deserves hate. Of any of my favorite shows or movies or books, Warren is my all time most hated fictional character.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

It would have been interesting to put Anya and Warren together - her misandry would match his misogyny and the result would have been like matter and antimatter coming together. Both of them chose evil ways without losing their souls and Anya's body count might be a match for any demon. Warren is not an incel - he does manage to attract Katrina Silber, so we can't necessarily lump him in with those guys. He is just a sociopath with technical skills.

Should he be hated? In the objective sense, yes, but hating him was never going to make him change his ways, so it would be pointless. Willow treated him as someone should have, but we do not necessarily support Willow flaying him. Maybe it should have been someone else, but Willow certainly got the job done. The funny thing is, Warren survives in the comics, obviously written by someone who didn't watch the show and see him die.