Question Was it Jasmine who sent visions to Cordelia?

[MrSuvarta]

Hello,
I'm rewatching Angel season 4 and I have a doubt: in episode 4x17 Skip says that Jasmine managed events in order to make her birth possible: Connor's birth, Darla's resurrection, and most important Cordelia coming to LA, meeting Angel and getting visions from Doyle: without visions, she would not have been turned into an half-demon and ascended to a higher level from which she carried down Jasmine to Earth. So, what if Cordelia's visions were sent by Jasmine from the beginning, and not from the legitmate Powers That Be? It makes much more sense to me: if the real PTBs were in contact with Cordelia I think they would have warned her through visions of Jasmine's plans.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

There is nothing in the show that demonstrates The Powers That Be to be the good guys. They seem to act strategically, just like Wolfram & Hart, promoting their own agenda. But this is like politics - the real agenda can be a big, unpleasant secret.

 

[MrSuvarta]

That makes sense. I always thought that Jasmine and PTBs were enemies, since she left them to directly interact with the lower levels: if that is true, is much probable it was Jasmine to send visions. But if Jasmine coming to Earth was in the PTBs plans, they could have favoured it through Cordelia's visions and ascension.

 

[Kana]

Hello,
I'm rewatching Angel season 4 and I have a doubt: in episode 4x17 Skip says that Jasmine managed events in order to make her birth possible: Connor's birth, Darla's resurrection, and most important Cordelia coming to LA, meeting Angel and getting visions from Doyle: without visions, she would not have been turned into an half-demon and ascended to a higher level from which she carried down Jasmine to Earth. So, what if Cordelia's visions were sent by Jasmine from the beginning, and not from the legitmate Powers That Be? It makes much more sense to me: if the real PTBs were in contact with Cordelia I think they would have warned her through visions of Jasmine's plans.

Regardless of their moral standing, I'd say that the Visions were from the PTBs. It's possible for the most part that the PTBs may not have been aware of what Jasmine was planning until the last minute.

Now this is the interesting part. As far as I remember the Visions are always of people in danger. However if you remember at the end of Season 3 she gets a vision of her conversation with Skip (although without Skip in the vision). Cordy assumes that this is a sign that everything is going to be OK. However Cordy never gets visions of happy endings, only people in danger. My theory is that this is the PTBs warning her about what Jasmine is going to do to her.

The problem is, if this is the case, then why so vague? Well we know the PTBs can be vague in the visions but maybe this is because they are limited in how they can communicate to the recipient, sort like someone trying to convey an important message with a really bad mobile phone reception. Or it could be that Jasmine intercepted and manipulated the message.

 

[Sternbeeere]

There is nothing in the show that demonstrates The Powers That Be to be the good guys. They seem to act strategically, just like Wolfram & Hart, promoting their own agenda. But this is like politics - the real agenda can be a big, unpleasant secret.

True, but they oppose both Jasmine and the Old Ones. So it would make a difference who sent versions to Cordelia and why. Also they present themselves as the good guys, unlike the Old Ones for example, who either do not care or show off the evil side. However, Jasmine is a rebellious PTB, and also presents herself as the good guy to others, so it is very difficult to say who sent versions to Cordelia. Also for me the questions is how Gods and Godesses are in relation to the PTBs in terms of power, position and perception.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

That’s an easy question. In season four, the Powers send Ghost Darla to talk with Connor, and Cordie had nothing to do with it. They also gave Cordie her one more chance, and the final vision to Angel. So whoever was acting as Angel’s Patron or Patrons in prior seasons, was capable of acting apart from Jasmine and against her interests. So, basically, she was one member of an council, as opposed to their only benefactor.