Your opinion on William?

[MarieVampSlayer]

Hi all,

I was wondering what you guys though of William before he became Spike?

I absolutely adore him but I am curious on what the fandom thinks of him.

Please do tell 🙂

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I think it was absolutely genius to make Spike a poet. William only lacks two things to make him Spike: Superpowers and a bad ass woman he must work to impress.

Spike seems to be modelled after characters from Romantic fiction and poetry that date from during and before William's time with a little Sid Viscous added for flavour. Spike was a natural persona for William to adopt.

 

[MarlieTheSlayer]

I don't know, I'm kinda neutral about him. I agree that it was a good idea to make him a poet, but that's about it.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

We see the self righteous anger that is so characteristic of Spike when William walks past the Whirlwind.

P.S. I just realised we have a Marie Vamp Slayer and a Marlie the Slayer. I think I've been a little confused 😛

 

[Puppet]

I absolutely adore William. He is just so deliciously pathetic; such a mama's boy, introvert mostly by choice, I think he can be summed up rather well by his words in FFL: "I prefer not to think of such dark, ugly business at all. That's what police are for. I prefer placing my energies into creating things of beauty."

He has no idea how to 'properly' behave among his own 'kind', can't recognize when someone - like Cecily - is beyond uninterested (and really not worth his time or affections, anyway) and responds to bullies in exactly the way bullies want their victims to respond; runs away and cries his poor little heart out. He's weak in every sense of the word, but also kind and intelligent. He's either behind or ahead of his time and being turned into Spike was definitely beneficial to him, I can see why he considers Drusilla to have 'saved' him that night.

 

[Priceless]

William is adorable. He's an introvert who has a complex inner life. He dreams of being a poet, respected and admired, but is constantly ridiculed by his peers. He's sweet natured, but a little neurotic and easily hurt. He wants to surround himself with beauty, he's a dreamer and is socially inept, with little actual understanding of people. I think of him as a man child, who hasn't grown up, which could explain his closeness with his mother.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

We see the self righteous anger that is so characteristic of Spike when William walks past the Whirlwind.

I disagree that it was "self righteous" anger. I think he was genuinely upset at Cecily telling him "you're beneath me" and he was hurting and just wanted to get away.

I absolutely adore William. He is just so deliciously pathetic; such a mama's boy, introvert mostly by choice, I think he can be summed up rather well by his words in FFL: "I prefer not to think of such dark, ugly business at all. That's what police are for. I prefer placing my energies into creating things of beauty."

He has no idea how to 'properly' behave among his own 'kind', can't recognize when someone - like Cecily - is beyond uninterested (and really not worth his time or affections, anyway) and responds to bullies in exactly the way bullies want their victims to respond; runs away and cries his poor little heart out. He's weak in every sense of the word, but also kind and intelligent. He's either behind or ahead of his time and being turned into Spike was definitely beneficial to him, I can see why he considers Drusilla to have 'saved' him that night.

I think William was in a state of denial. His beloved mother was terminally sick and he couldn't accept the fact she was going to die. He doesn't want to think about the murders going on in London, not because he's naïve, but because he doesn't want to think about the subject of death which relates back to his dying mother. Her sires his mother because he wants to make her "well", in other words he wants to stop her from dying. His mother is his world at that point (My head-canon theory is that William's father died when William was just a boy and on his deathbed made William promise to look after his mother. Spike kept that promise (because he does keep his side of bargains) but he was too focussed on it much to his mother's concern). William doesn't want to think of his mother dying, the look on his face when she coughs up blood suggests that he's trying to pretend it isn't happening and the blood on the hankerchief is reality reminding him that his mother will die.

I like William because he is a decent guy with an idealistic outlook on life. I think he has some character traits in common with myself (mainly the inability to know how to handle confrontation, the idealistic outlook on life, not wanting to think about the death of loved ones, being able to communicate ideas better through writing than verbally, etc). I don't think he's "pathetic", he just lacks confidence. Being sired gave William confidence but at the end of the day Spike is still William.

In many ways, Season 2 was a sense of deja vu for Spike. A loved one is unwell and dying so he does his best to cure them, then when they are "cured" they act in a way that causes Spike upset (I would like to add that I think there are underlying issues regarding Dru/Angelus that are more complex than Dru just being "a big ho").

 

[GoSpuffy]

I loved Spike so much that I didn't believe I could love him more and then we met William, and my love found new heights. I always believed Spike was bad, I was sure he was some little London gutter dweller like the kids working for Fagan on Oliver Twist. The layers of Spike are exactly why I think he's so much fun to watch.

 

[Puppet]

I loved Spike so much that I didn't believe I could love him more and then we met William, and my love found new heights. I always believed Spike was bad, I was sure he was some little London gutter dweller like the kids working for Fagan on Oliver Twist. The layers of Spike are exactly why I think he's so much fun to watch.

Have you read fanfic from before FFL came out? It's hilarious how fans saw his background, now that we know it, specifically an author called sabershadowkat, who has William with that past you mentioned, plus her Spike has ADD/ADHD (don't know what the difference is) and can't stop either moving his body or his mouth. It's strange but fun to read 🙂

 

[thrasherpix]

I like him well enough. But what I really like is contrasting William with season 2-4 Spike. Spike is such a perfect "warped demonic reflection" of William that it's fascinating to me (and drives home the point to me that vampires are demons using corpses--including brains/personality--of vampire victims as hosts rather than the same people they were in life now infected with a mystical disease).

 

[TriBel]

The problem with being over generous to William in his relationship with his mother is his suggestion he call for Dr Gull. Gull, a compassionate, upper class doctor who may well alleviate Spike's mother's pain, is also suspected of being Jack the Ripper: a man who murders women who come on to him. Strangely, Gull's also called William. Just saying...don't throw things! 😱

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I disagree that it was "self righteous" anger. I think he was genuinely upset at Cecily telling him "you're beneath me" and he was hurting and just wanted to get away.

I think he is fantasising about taking revenge against Cecily and the bullies. Drusilla senses his anger and decides to give him the means.

He's like that kid in South Park.

 

[TriBel]

@WillowFromBuffy "That's some nice bit of trivia, right there, Doctor." Sadly, I once taught a whole module based on Jack the Ripper. Must admit I like Moore's From Hell but I couldn't tell you now what White Chappell, Scarlet Tracings was about. Too much psycho and not enough geography - or the other way round. 🙁

 

[buffy1990]

"My heart expands
'Tis grown a bulge in it
Inspired by your beauty,
Effulgent."

Oh, how I love William! Honestly though, he's a really interesting look at Spike prior too, and a lot of his characteristics (obsessive love, sensitivity, etc.) are present in Spike as a demon. It's interesting stuff!

I only wish we had more poetry...

 

[TriBel]

@Priceless "Duck . . . There's a duck?". Aargh - don't start me! Remember me saying I'd read Spike's story (both content and form) before? That used a gull metaphor but in opposition to swans.

Here - "A Duck has several meanings. A white duck denotes purity of the soul and a clean conscious. A brown duck that is peering at the human figure suggests the person may be possessed by an evil spirit, devil or at the very least is filled with wickedness. A white duck swimming with swans or other water birds often symbolized the spread of Christianity among the heathens" .the meaning of Birds in painting I knew S7 was utilising symbolism from various art movements but hadn't picked up on this! I love S7!

 

[Athena]

William comes across the sort of guy who would behave exactly like Spike when given power and immortality. Socially inept becomes social butterfly. Weak becomes strong. Love becomes obsession.

It makes perfect sense that human William will do whatever it takes to save his mother and Vampire William would also do whatever it takes to "save" his mother too.

 

[white avenger]

We actually know so little about William from the few very brief flashbacks that we see about him...

I've always imagined him to have been a rather shy, introspective young man who spent most of his time reading romantic novels and poetry about ancient heroes like Beowulf, Arthur, Lancelot, and the Knights of Charlemagne, and dreamed of one day being a heroic figure with a beautiful princess to love and defend. That would have fit right in with his love of, and somewhat lame attempts at, poetry, as well as his devotion to Dru, despite the way that she treated him. Of course, that makes him a bit more like Don Quixote than Sir Lancelot, but that's pretty much what Spike was, when we first met him.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Of course, that makes him a bit more like Don Quixote than Sir Lancelot, but that's pretty much what Spike was, when we first met him.

Well, Spike got Dru safely out of Prague, just like Lancelot saved Guinevere from the pyre.

But I get your point. Spike is a bit of a try-hard and a parody of the characters he aspires to be like.

 

[TriBel]

a parody of the characters he aspires to be like.

I think this is right - and I think you're right with the "romantic hero" theme but I also think it manifests itself in across time in different forms - not just the poet. His eagerness to perform the role is what makes it a parody. It's through the actual act of performance - the flux of becoming - that Whedon is able to make a political point about being. Without this it would be pastiche. Sigh...I've been thinking about it but not thinking about it well. I like this.

 

[EarthLogic]

I think William's a sweetie and his human personality makes perfect sense as a precursor to Spike. Awkward, shy, stuttering, lacking natural academic talent though not for want of trying and resentful of his social group. It's easy to see why he would find a sense of liberation in becoming a vampire.