Buffy/Angel or Buffy/Spike? How about both?

[thetopher]

Buffy is a complex character. Just as relationships are. Buffy's relationships are not doomed to fail. Their purpose is to make her grow as a character.

That's the thing, rthese relationships no longer lead to Bufyf growing as a character. No matter what she does these two immortals will always pursuit her and love her and never move on. She doesn't need to DO anything to sustain the relationship.
That isn't character growth, that's love-fantasy and doesn't seem to lead to interesting stories.

Even thought we root for B/A or S/B, Buffy is not meant to stay with neither.

So its either one or the other? Strongly disagree here. There are many other options, those are just the shipper choices.

 

[NikonTheVampire]

So its either one or the other? Strongly disagree here. There are many other options, those are just the shipper choices.

I am not saying that one or the other. I am saying that during the course of 7 seasons both relationships were there to make Buffy grow. That's all. She is not meant to stay with either one of them during these 7 seasons. A look into the future one would ask. Who do you see Buffy being in a long term relationship with?

 

[thetopher]

Oh, okay. I thought that when you said 'she is not meant to stay with niether' it was like a double-negative type thing.
My mistake. 🙂

 

[gillianmorsee]

Where's the Buffy/Riley love? They were clearly the BEST couple. 😛

I didn't mention Riley, but I suppose at that point in Buffy's life (Season 4), Riley's love is the type of love she needed as well. 🙂

 

[Ozillow]

I'm Spike/Buffy all the way! They are an amazing couple. Yes as other people have said season 6 their relationship was troubled but in season 7 they got way better. Also, Angel only loves Buffy with a soul whereas Spike loves her even when he doesn't have one. Spike is also just all in all a lot more fun, Angel is always brooding but Spike is funnier.

 

[Guy]

Heh, I just realized something... The closest Buffy ever came to being in a healthy relationship was with Satsu. Angel and Spike were both completely messed up (both of them tried to kill and/or rape her at some point, so, "bad history" is a huge understatement), and Riley got more and more messed up the closer he and Buffy got together. Satsu, on the other hand, was totally cool and mentally balanced, and she and Buffy were always very kind to each other. And Satsu even managed to be mentally healthy without being boring! The only problem was the orientation thing, but come on - at this point, doesn't Buffy want to give up on men altogether?

I'm really not into the whole "shipping" thing, but goddammit - Buffy/Satsu is endgame!

Angel and Spike can go back to babysitting Connor and Dawn or whatever.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Who do you see Buffy being in a long term relationship with?

I think the best person for Buffy to be in a long term relationship with is someone who:

• Can hold their own in a fight- Buffy always attracts danger.
• Respects Buffy's role as a slayer- Buffy isn't going to give up slaying for anyone.
• Can age- This rules out Angel and Spike but it's kinder for all otherwise Angel and Spike have to watch Buffy die whilst Buffy will get self-conscious about her age compared to her youthful looking boyfriend.
• Treats Buffy as an equal- Not as a superior or an inferior.
• Have Buffy's best interests at heart.
• Is Respected by Buffy as an equal.

 

[Priceless]

I don't understand why Buffy's partner has to age. When you fall in love with someone it's about more than the physical being, it'a about everything that person has to offer and who that person is. Buffy is an extraordinary woman, I really don't think age will weary her as much as everyone thinks - and of course that all depends on if she reaches old age.

Richard Wilkins stayed with his wife right to the end, and he was a monster! The end might have been terrible, but the years before hand might have been wonderful, we just don't know.

 

[thetopher]

Also, someone who could actually, y'know, go out in the day-time. That would be a big plus I bet.

Buffy has an intense night job, no reason she can't also have fun in the sun as well.

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

I'd add someone who isn't pushing Buffy's buttons, with or without intent, that make her resort to violence.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I don't understand why Buffy's partner has to age.

I think it would be unrealistic to ignore that body image is a thing. In an ideal world, nobody would care about what they looked like or what other people thought of them, unfortunately it is a thing and so should be explored. They explored it briefly with Willow in season 4 when she accused Spike of "settling" for her when he really went there to kill Buffy and had Spike reassure her that if he could bite her he would etc.

I don't think Buffy would be immune to the same doubts over her body. We're talking visibly older as in Angel/Spike could be mistaken for her son or even grandson. Buffy will have to give up slaying at some point when she gets two old (which she can now do because of there being more than one slayer). Buffy needs somebody she can spend her life with, not someone who is a constant reminder of her own mortality.

Also, it's tragic to think Buffy might not reach old age. She probably won't, sad but true, but she needs someone where the potential to grow old together is a real possibility.

 

[Priceless]

think it would be unrealistic to ignore that body image is a thing. In an ideal world, nobody would care about what they looked like or what other people thought of them, unfortunately it is a thing and so should be explored. They explored it briefly with Willow in season 4 when she accused Spike of "settling" for her when he really went there to kill Buffy and had Spike reassure her that if he could bite her he would etc.

Willow's line was about her own self-esteem issues. I am not sure Buffy has ever shown those sort of issues. She always seems very confident in her own skin. I cannot remember anytime Buffy has questioned her worth based on her looks alone.

I agree body image is a thing and people do care what their partner looks like. But I would say that if you loved someone and they were burnt in a fire, would you stop loving them even though physically they wouldn''t be considered as attractive as previously? What if they lost a limb?

don't think Buffy would be immune to the same doubts over her body. We're talking visibly older as in Angel/Spike could be mistaken for her son or even grandson. Buffy will have to give up slaying at some point when she gets two old (which she can now do because of there being more than one slayer). Buffy needs somebody she can spend her life with, not someone who is a constant reminder of her own mortality.

Are there double standards at play here? If Spike were to age and Buffy stay the same, would you feel the same? It seems men can be older and have young girlfriends, and people don't react the same as if the women were the older partner. I say go for it Buffy! 🙂

Also, it's tragic to think Buffy might not reach old age. She probably won't, sad but true, but she needs someone where the potential to grow old together is a real possibility.

It is awful to think of a world without Buffy, which is why she has to enjoy herself while she's here, and at the moment that means being with Spike, If the only problem is they don't look age appropriate together, then that's other peoples problem.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Willow's line was about her own self-esteem issues. I am not sure Buffy has ever shown those sort of issues. She always seems very confident in her own skin. I cannot remember anytime Buffy has questioned her worth based on her looks alone.

Buffy questioned herself after sleeping with Angel and Parker "Did I do something wrong?" but within the show she's never questioned her appearance because she knows she's attractive, she has men practically falling at her feet. She doesn't care about her appearance because she has no reason to care. However, as she gets older and looks in the mirror and can see the signs of aging, that's when the doubts would start to creep in. It wouldn't be an overnight process but happen over time.

I agree body image is a thing and people do care what their partner looks like. But I would say that if you loved someone and they were burnt in a fire, would you stop loving them even though physically they wouldn''t be considered as attractive as previously? What if they lost a limb?

This isn't about what Buffy's partner (in this case Angel or Spike) think of Buffy, it's about what Buffy thinks of herself in relation to her partner eg Buffy thinks she's not attractive anymore even though Spike or Angel may think she is.

Are there double standards at play here? If Spike were to age and Buffy stay the same, would you feel the same? It seems men can be older and have young girlfriends, and people don't react the same as if the women were the older partner. I say go for it Buffy! 🙂

When I'm talking about an older Buffy, I'm talking about GrannyBuffy. Generally, when you get such a big difference in age gap, the term "gold digger" springs forth regardless of whether it's older man/younger woman or older woman/younger man.

May-December romances are completely different as they tend to be genuine and the age gap not so big (20-30 years tops). Cougars (older women/younger men) tend to be around middle age.

It is awful to think of a world without Buffy, which is why she has to enjoy herself while she's here, and at the moment that means being with Spike, If the only problem is they don't look age appropriate together, then that's other peoples problem.

Nobody's saying that Buffy isn't enjoying her herself with Spike at the moment, but as Buffy ages and becomes a pensioner whereas Spike stays at an eternally youthful 30, she's going to start looking at the mirror and start questioning herself. Even if that potential storyline gets resolved as Buffy not caring about the obvious appearance-wise age difference between her and Spike and everyone lives happily ever after up to Buffy's age related death, to not have Buffy experience those doubts would be incredibly unrealistic.

Buffy having someone she could age with would prevent those self-doubts.

 

[Priceless]

Buffy questioned herself after sleeping with Angel and Parker "Did I do something wrong?" but within the show she's never questioned her appearance because she knows she's attractive, she has men practically falling at her feet. She doesn't care about her appearance because she has no reason to care. However, as she gets older and looks in the mirror and can see the signs of aging, that's when the doubts would start to creep in.

Buffy questioned herself in Halloween when she believed she wan't graceful or ladylike enough for Angel, but once again it was about her character and her job as a slayer, not her physical appearance. I just don't think she will worry about the way she looks as she ages, because being the slayer is more important, and I don't see that changing.

I look at Goldie Hawn, Jane Fonda, Helen Mirren, Diane Keaton, all in their 70's (I think) and they still look stunning, and there is no reason Buffy couldn't look like that. Angel or Spike would think themselves very lucky indeed.

Nobody's saying that Buffy isn't enjoying her herself with Spike at the moment, but as Buffy ages and becomes a pensioner whereas Spike stays at an eternally youthful 30, she's going to start looking at the mirror and start questioning herself. Even if that potential storyline gets resolved as Buffy not caring about the obvious appearance-wise age difference between her and Spike and everyone lives happily ever after up to Buffy's age related death, to not have Buffy experience those doubts would be incredibly unrealistic.

Buffy having someone she could age with would prevent those self-doubts.

It comes back to love. Angel and Spike have both sacrificed so much for Buffy, their love can't be questionned and I don't think either of them would turn away from Buffy when she began to show signs of age. Spike got his soul so he could be the man she needed, he sacrificed himself for her, I don't think a few wrinkles are going to change his feelings. if Buffy shows self doubt then he (or Angel) have to keep reassuring her

 

[DeadlyDuo]

if Buffy shows self doubt then he (or Angel) have to keep reassuring her

That's what I'm saying. Buffy having doubts as she ages is more realistic than if she doesn't. This isn't about Angel or Spike and how they see Buffy, it's about Buffy and how she sees herself.

 

[Priceless]

That's what I'm saying. Buffy having doubts as she ages is more realistic than if she doesn't. This isn't about Angel or Spike and how they see Buffy, it's about Buffy and how she sees herself.

We all have doubts about ourself, it doesn't, or shouldn't stop us doing anything. Buffy might worry about the way she looks, but that shouldn't stop her being with the person she loves, who loves her. And I don't think it would. If Buffy is secure in Spike (or Angel's) love, then the way she thinks she looks won't affect the relationship because the realtionship is strong enough to survive her aging.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

We all have doubts about ourself, it doesn't, or shouldn't stop us doing anything. Buffy might worry about the way she looks, but that shouldn't stop her being with the person she loves, who loves her. And I don't think it would. If Buffy is secure in Spike (or Angel's) love, then the way she thinks she looks won't affect the relationship because the realtionship is strong enough to survive her aging.

But Buffy would want to spare them the pain of having to watch her grow old and die. Even though it would pain her to do so, I could see Buffy breaking up with them to "free" them despite their protests.

 

[Priceless]

But Buffy would want to spare them the pain of having to watch her grow old and die. Even though it would pain her to do so, I could see Buffy breaking up with them to "free" them despite their protests.

She may think she would be doing it for their own good, but if you've been with someone for 20, 30 years I think it would be very hard to end that relationship because of the way you looked, and the way the relationship looked to the outside world. I don't think Buffy would think like that, but I guess it is possible 🙁

 

[DeadlyDuo]

She may think she would be doing it for their own good, but if you've been with someone for 20, 30 years I think it would be very hard to end that relationship because of the way you looked, and the way the relationship looked to the outside world. I don't think Buffy would think like that, but I guess it is possible 🙁

That's assuming the relationship survives 20-30 years........😛

Seriously though, Spike still thinks about Drusilla and has mentioned her or been seen with her in flashback in every season he has been in on the show including Angel season 5. Buffy had this line in "Selfless" in regards to Angel and season 2 "I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life".

Buffy's line alone is a bit of a "hold on a minute...." moment.