Latest Amy Acker & Joss pic

[DagonSphere]

Yes, I'm aware Joss cheated on this ex wife with multiple women. That's public knowledge. The point I'm trying to make is it's a gamble marrying a man who has a history of cheating. It's been my experience once a cheater always a cheater. Of course there are exceptions.

And I don't doubt his wife is a good person, just that she may have poor taste in men. Not a judgment. I can relate.

From that atrocious interview he did a couple of years ago, we know that Joss was in therapy for sex addiction and working on himself to be a better man and husband. He also said that he talked openly about his triggers to his wife and that it worked for them, because she was the first person he loved above everything else and wanted to be better for. I think as a younger man he probably lacked the tools to deal with it, be it communication skills or maturity. I think it's often true that cheaters repeat their mistakes, but I feel like there are also a lot of people who explore the reasons for their cheating, seek help and work on themselves. I think we always tend to condemn people that cheat, when in truth we should explore more why they cheat. I have friends who have cheated on their significant others and they also had enormous struggles to deal with their actions and own moral failings. The world isn't as black and white and I think in most cases it could be avoided if people talked more openly to each other in their relationships.

I suspect there are two Josses; a nice, friendly one that the favoured people who never do anything to rile him up get, and the brutal bully for those who dare to challenge him. What's the word for someone like that? A psychopath? Sociopath? A narcissist of some kind?

Don't we all have different sides to us where we treat people differently and where some people like us and some don't?

There is a saying that nothing succeeds like success, and Joss hasn't really had any successes in a long time. Execs care about success, and money, and if Joss isn't brining in the money, he won't be getting the work. There is a long history of overlooking anything but not being successful.

I think the problem with a Joss return is that he originally presented himself as this progressive feminist and the people who followed him have high moral values so him failing his own ideals, having created toxic situations for cast and crew members as well as his failed relationships due to cheating is like a huge betrayal to them. Additionally, Joss always deals with similar topics, The Nevers was also about strong women and outsiders, so his audience is less inclined to watch something with his name on it due to his personal failings that feel so deeply personal to them. Additionally, I also feel like a lot of the Snyder superfans really campaigned against him. The reactions on social media - even years after JL and the release of the Snyder cut - are still brutal and quite vocal. At the same time, Joss has also angered more conservative people due to his political posts and statement, so they likely do not see a potential audience that would follow him onto new projects.

I was not able to see any of the pictures in this thread, but it's nice that Joss has still had some lasting Buffy relationships even after the entire fall-out.

 

[hoponlilmama]

About CC pregnancy:


Kelly Manners (on set producer):

What’s interesting is that in season four Charisma was going to become the evil character. Joss had broken the story arc, but about a month before we started, Charisma walked in and goes, “Oh, by the way, I’m pregnant”. Joss almost tripped over. That’s how Gina Torres came to be on the show as Jasmine. That threw a big wrench into Joss’s plans, I thought he was going to cry, because it had to change his whole vision for that season. I know Joss loved having Gina; I think she brought quite a bit to the show. Like I said, she was a life vest because Joss’s vision got ****ed up. I think in a way she saved that season.

David Fury (S4 co showrunner):

Charisma felt that everyone got angry at her over her pregnancy, and she’s not wrong. I’m not going to say that I had a particular problem with her pregnancy, but the thing with Charisma is she led her life as she wanted to without considering ramifications on her role on the shows. For instance, she wound up getting a bunch of tattoos and one of them was a cross that was on her wrist. And I’m going, “You got a tattoo of a cross on your wrist when you’re on a vampire show, and crosses have an effect on them? We have to hide that now”. It’s little things like that. These seem like little things. By all means she has the right to have a child, and I have no idea what the circumstances, but it wasn’t timed well. It wasn’t timed to help us with production and allow us to write around it.

I agree to an extent - I mentioned in an earlier post that for minor things (like tattoos or changes to appearance) she needed to clear that when she didn't - even SMG asked about cutting her hair in s6.

But the pregnancy - if it was accidental, it's not like she did it on purpose to throw off their plans for s4. I think they could've worked around her. Yes, it might involve more work, but it's not like it was impossible.

I wonder if Alyson or Amy had fallen pregnant, would there have been such a reaction?

 

[Synch]

There are new pics from him and fellow ME shows people: Joss and Heather were at LupusLA event (Mo Tancharoen has Lupus) and, aside from Mo and Jed, J August and his partner were also there. I can't share this at the moment cause those are Mo's stories. They all look great.

 

[Btvs fan]

I agree to an extent - I mentioned in an earlier post that for minor things (like tattoos or changes to appearance) she needed to clear that when she didn't - even SMG asked about cutting her hair in s6.

But the pregnancy - if it was accidental, it's not like she did it on purpose to throw off their plans for s4. I think they could've worked around her. Yes, it might involve more work, but it's not like it was impossible.

I wonder if Alyson or Amy had fallen pregnant, would there have been such a reaction?

The Fury Tattoo excuse is such BS
Sarah has tattoos, you can see one on her ankle in Restless and on her back in Buffy v Drac and no one cared.
If it was such an issue they could've had her wear long sleeved t-shirt. Hell its on the inside of her wrist so just don't focus on it.

Look I actually think that her character had run out of gas anyway and the show did better without her and Charismas "evil peformance" was not great anyway so I actually think it worked out better without her but don't give crappy excuses like that.

In sum do I think Joss was right to get rid of her, yes. Do I think firing her just because she got pregnant and had a tattoo was right , no

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

I'm surprised Joss got remarried. Like what woman would marry him knowing what he did to his ex wife? People are strange.

Amy looks amazing.

People marry known creeps all the time, especially those with power or money.

And of course there are women who marry serial killers on death row. No accounting for human stupidity.

 

[hoponlilmama]

The Fury Tattoo excuse is such BS
Sarah has tattoos, you can see one on her ankle in Restless and on her back in Buffy v Drac and no one cared.
If it was such an issue they could've had her wear long sleeved t-shirt. Hell its on the inside of her wrist so just don't focus on it.

Look I actually think that her character had run out of gas anyway and the show did better without her and Charismas "evil peformance" was not great anyway so I actually think it worked out better without her but don't give crappy excuses like that.

In sum do I think Joss was right to get rid of her, yes. Do I think firing her just because she got pregnant and had a tattoo was right , no

As @NotASlayer said, a tattoo is easily covered with makeup. I mean this is a series that has talented MU artists and bring demons to life, so covering a tattoo would've been a piece of cake. I mean, even the change in hair isn't a huge deal when you think about it - script writers could even add a line, like Angel asking Cordy, "When did you get time to cut your hair?!"

I don't agree her character ran out of gas, so on that we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter. If anything, they just could've reduced her screen time. Or have her return to Sunnydale, rather than killing her off.

 

[BuffyElevated]

...I wonder if Alyson or Amy had fallen pregnant, would there have been such a reaction?

I highly doubt it. They were much closer with Joss, and I think if it had been one of them, it would have been written into the show in a much different way and I definitely don't think he would have fired them.

 

[Btvs fan]

As @NotASlayer said, a tattoo is easily covered with makeup. I mean this is a series that has talented MU artists and bring demons to life, so covering a tattoo would've been a piece of cake. I mean, even the change in hair isn't a huge deal when you think about it - script writers could even add a line, like Angel asking Cordy, "When did you get time to cut your hair?!"

I don't agree her character ran out of gas, so on that we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter. If anything, they just could've reduced her screen time. Or have her return to Sunnydale, rather than killing her off.

It was Greenwalt who pushed for bringing Cordelia on to Angel. Charisma used to call him Greenie
It does seem noticeable that when Greenwalt left at the end of Season 3 that her days were numbered soon after

Post automatically merged: May 9, 2026

I highly doubt it. They were much closer with Joss, and I think if it had been one of them, it would have been written into the show in a much different way and I definitely don't think he would have fired them.

Charisma has openly said that when they brought Amy Acker on the show she was worried her spot as female lead was being taken

 

[NotASlayer]

Charisma has openly said that when they brought Amy Acker on the show she was worried her spot as female lead was being taken

This is unfortunately not an uncommon worry.

 

[hoponlilmama]

It was Greenwalt who pushed for bringing Cordelia on to Angel. Charisma used to call him Greenie
It does seem noticeable that when Greenwalt left at the end of Season 3 that her days were numbered soon after

Post automatically merged: May 9, 2026

Thank you for the info. A shame that it seems like she was then on her own.

Like I said, easiest then to reduce her role or ship her back to Sunnydale. Would've been cool to have seen another familiar face come back there.

 

[Btvs fan]

Thank you for the info. A shame that it seems like she was then on her own.

Like I said, easiest then to reduce her role or ship her back to Sunnydale. Would've been cool to have seen another familiar face come back there.

I mean by that time Buffy as a show was ending anyway and Joss as he's since admitted was burned out at the time. Besides Im not sure where she fits in and this is a character he's lukewarm at best on. Back when she was on the show she was the basic high school bitch but that's very 1 note (on the WttH DVD Commentary Joss admits she acts like total cartoon) . Out of High School you can't really bring that back. I mean in Buffy season 3 they already did the reset once with her anyway.

She was brought back for the Ats 100th episode because they couldn't get Sarah back and while Your Welcome is not as great as some make out, it at least gave the character closure though Charisma was angry they killed her off and said Whedon and Jeff Bell lied to her !

 

[NotASlayer]

She was brought back for the Ats 100th episode because they couldn't get Sarah back and while Your Welcome is not as great as some make out, it at least gave the character closure though Charisma was angry they killed her off and said Whedon and Jeff Bell lied to her !

It may be kind of telling how much difficulty they had bringing cast members back for Angel S5. Other than Andrew. Who would not have been my first choice. Or second, Or third. Or fourth. Or...

 

[DagonSphere]

The Fury Tattoo excuse is such BS
Sarah has tattoos, you can see one on her ankle in Restless and on her back in Buffy v Drac and no one cared.
If it was such an issue they could've had her wear long sleeved t-shirt. Hell its on the inside of her wrist so just don't focus on it.

Look I actually think that her character had run out of gas anyway and the show did better without her and Charismas "evil peformance" was not great anyway so I actually think it worked out better without her but don't give crappy excuses like that.

In sum do I think Joss was right to get rid of her, yes. Do I think firing her just because she got pregnant and had a tattoo was right , no

I think the problem with Charisma's tattoo was that it was a cross tattoo, so if they let her keep it on camera, it affects Angel when she touches him (though that would be kinda a smart choice for self-defence in an universe with vampires). But yeah, I feel like they could have just hidden it under make-up, which I think they did.

However, I think there is probably a lot more that happened behind the scenes that we simply aren't privy to. Who knows what issues Charisma and Joss had throughout the years. I think Charisma's exit is a result of many different things escalating for a while, and maybe it's just that Whedon was an asshole or maybe there's also some things that Charisma did that built up a sense of frustration with her. We will never know.

I don't think the season 4 storyline was written to punish her. I think if they wanted to punish her, they would have given her less to do, but she instead had the most important part in the season. I can also see why she was paired up with Connor: to lighten her workload and reduce her group scenes where they have to film lots of coverage. So instead she spends a lot of time in 1:1 scenes with Connor where they don't have to shoot as many long hours necessarily. I also think the writers thought the Connor/Cordy relationship was fun, they wanted to allude to classic Shakespearian themes and make it icky and weird, but they didn't fully realise that she's one of the most important characters on the show and that fans would hate it so passionately. For me, I think it would have worked better if he had had a bit of the Original Cordelia in season 4, snarky, funny, full of heart. Maybe they could have had her fighting inside her body for control. Maybe that would have made it better.

Ultimately I don't buy any excuse that they didn't know what to do with Cordelia anymore when her journey was pretty clear in early season 3 on. She willingly let herself be turned into a demon, took fighting training with Angel and was on her way to being a champion. I think just her turning into a half-demon was already something they could have explored in more depth rather than just having her glow at random times. In a way though I think her romance with Angel doomed them. Any character that has an epic romance with Angel is not long for this world, because Angel is not allowed to be happy.

 

[Btvs fan]

I think the problem with Charisma's tattoo was that it was a cross tattoo, so if they let her keep it on camera, it affects Angel when she touches him (though that would be kinda a smart choice for self-defence in an universe with vampires). But yeah, I feel like they could have just hidden it under make-up, which I think they did.

However, I think there is probably a lot more that happened behind the scenes that we simply aren't privy to. Who knows what issues Charisma and Joss had throughout the years. I think Charisma's exit is a result of many different things escalating for a while, and maybe it's just that Whedon was an asshole or maybe there's also some things that Charisma did that built up a sense of frustration with her. We will never know.

I don't think the season 4 storyline was written to punish her. I think if they wanted to punish her, they would have given her less to do, but she instead had the most important part in the season. I can also see why she was paired up with Connor: to lighten her workload and reduce her group scenes where they have to film lots of coverage. So instead she spends a lot of time in 1:1 scenes with Connor where they don't have to shoot as many long hours necessarily. I also think the writers thought the Connor/Cordy relationship was fun, they wanted to allude to classic Shakespearian themes and make it icky and weird, but they didn't fully realise that she's one of the most important characters on the show and that fans would hate it so passionately. For me, I think it would have worked better if he had had a bit of the Original Cordelia in season 4, snarky, funny, full of heart. Maybe they could have had her fighting inside her body for control. Maybe that would have made it better.

Ultimately I don't buy any excuse that they didn't know what to do with Cordelia anymore when her journey was pretty clear in early season 3 on. She willingly let herself be turned into a demon, took fighting training with Angel and was on her way to being a champion. I think just her turning into a half-demon was already something they could have explored in more depth rather than just having her glow at random times. In a way though I think her romance with Angel doomed them. Any character that has an epic romance with Angel is not long for this world, because Angel is not allowed to be happy.

Charisma and Sarah did fall out during IWRY where Charisma was having trouble remembering her lines (the basic requirement of any actor/actress) and Sarah got so fed up with this she literally refused to work with her. And if you go back and watch the scenes of them together, when Buffy is asking where Angel is you'll notice they are never in the same shot together !

As for Season 4 there's definitely points where you can see the writers were winging it where things don't make sense . One example The scene where she wakes up and is horrified she slept with Connor, yet storywise that's meant to be Jasmine is in control and part of her plan.

There was also the old Vincent Karthiser Interview from when he was working on Mad Men and said that at the time the Crew thought Angel was going to be cancelled and so they didnt care.
The show got renewed very late in the day dont forget and only then for a promise of soft reset and Spike brought over.

Post automatically merged: May 10, 2026

It may be kind of telling how much difficulty they had bringing cast members back for Angel S5. Other than Andrew. Who would not have been my first choice. Or second, Or third. Or fourth. Or...

Sarah was meant to be back for the 100th episode and ASH for A Hole in the World and MT (which given her own comments about inappropriate behaviour is kind of incredible that this was an option) for That Girl in Question

 

[hoponlilmama]

I mean by that time Buffy as a show was ending anyway and Joss as he's since admitted was burned out at the time. Besides Im not sure where she fits in and this is a character he's lukewarm at best on. Back when she was on the show she was the basic high school bitch but that's very 1 note (on the WttH DVD Commentary Joss admits she acts like total cartoon) . Out of High School you can't really bring that back. I mean in Buffy season 3 they already did the reset once with her anyway.

Well, they brought back Faith so I don't see why Cordy couldn't come back to help in the fight somehow.

No one's talking about bringing back 'mean girl' Cordy. She's grown at this point, so perhaps her visions might help somehow?

As you said in an earlier post - who knows what exactly was going on behind the scenes. I mean, we got Andrew of all people hanging around in s7. I'd much, MUCH rather see Cordy back in the fold. 😁

 

[thrasherpix]

My heacanon is crosses have to be blessed or otherwise made with real devotion to ward off vampires (at the very least the devotion of the one using a cross has to be real). Otherwise, crossing two pencils or taping two throat depressors together could work, maybe even make a crossbow that has an actual cross shape on it (hold it up and it displays a cross shape) that can drive a vampire back for another shot.

That is, I wouldn't assume a tattoo of a cross could harm vampires. At least not more than trigger some PTSD (which could turn into blind rage).

Heck, all those crosses worn by the Scoobies in Dead Man's Party (where Xander is "Night Hawk") didn't seem to do them much good. Maybe crosses need to be presented boldly to work, not simply worn (though I do recall Angel getting a burn mark while I think kissing a cross wearing Buffy).

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

In the Buffy canon, it appears to require contact for crosses to hurt, though younger vamps seemed to back off when a cross is pushed into their faces.

In my story canons all religious (sacred) symbols hurt when touched by vampires.

 

[Btvs fan]

Crosses effectiveness depends on the episode or what the script calls for that scene. Which is why Fury's excuse is utter bull.

Look as Iv already said I thought Cordelia as a character was done long before (and Angel the show works better with fewer characters) but theres a difference between the character and the actress and even then her struggling to remember lines (which is a basic job requirement) and how the real life boss treats his real employee and real life office bullying.

 

[hoponlilmama]

My heacanon is crosses have to be blessed or otherwise made with real devotion to ward off vampires (at the very least the devotion of the one using a cross has to be real).

I think it just has to be a real crucifix - there's so many out there and they can't all be blessed. Like I imagine Madonna walking around the in 80s would be protected from vampires! 😉

But...you could be on to something! It's never specifically stated in the series and maybe as a Watcher, they provide their Slayers with blessed crosses.

Otherwise, crossing two pencils or taping two throat depressors together could work, maybe even make a crossbow that has an actual cross shape on it (hold it up and it displays a cross shape) that can drive a vampire back for another shot.

I just had a funny vision of Xander taping crosses together! I mean, two pencils would be clever when you think about it - serves a crucifix and then you can stake the vamp with the pencil.

That is, I wouldn't assume a tattoo of a cross could harm vampires. At least not more than trigger some PTSD (which could turn into blind rage).

I wouldn't either. Likely has to be a physical object, otherwise I'm sure Buffy and the Scoobies would've gotten some ink!

 

[NotASlayer]

More serious attempts at having crosses work has them not tied to the holy symbol itself but to the belief behind it. So, merely having a crucifix wouldn't work for, for example, a Jew or a Muslim, only for a Christian, even though all three religions are related, because it's not a symbol of the latter two religions. If you are an atheist, you might be screwed... 😀

I just had a funny vision of Xander taping crosses together! I mean, two pencils would be clever when you think about it - serves a crucifix and then you can stake the vamp with the pencil.

Something like that was done in From Dusk to Dawn in which two sticks were literally held together!