the Spike/Buffy balcony sex scene

[garfan]

This is a controversial scene, with some people calling it rape but I recently found out some people think it was more like a fantasy or dream sequence. It certainly wouldn't be the only one she had so does that seem possible to anyone else

 

[BaskingINBangel]

I don't recall anything on screen alluding to it being a dream. Since we don't see her waking up afterwards, or saying anything that might suggest it was, to me, it does not seem possible that it was a dream.

 

[thetopher]

The scene is more akin to a type of dark sexual fantasy than a rape scene, at least, according to a lot of booktok fiction reviewers/writers.

In actuality It's a terribly cringey scene if you actually focus on the dialogue, the mood lighting, music and the faux depth. It's one of the worst parts of the worst episode of BtVS. Depending on who you talk to it's the scene that killed the show, SMG was that unhappy with it.


Edit: I guess for those who are seriously intent and consistent on consent, agency and power dynamics at all times then its absolutely a rape scene.

 

[fauxindigo]

Oh here we go. I am all for analyzing and looking deeply into things (especially BtVS) but it was in no way a rape scene! Buffy could’ve thrown him off the balcony at any moment. And we already have a rape scene in seeing red soo let’s not.

When Buffy tells him to stop and he says make me- again she could stop him 100% if she wanted but he knows she wants it too. And his line “tell me you don’t love getting away with this under their noses” only relates to how ashamed Buffy was not that she was being taken advantage of necessarily; remember she was taking advantage of him just as much if not more- she said it- im using you.

Post automatically merged: Mar 29, 2026

This is a controversial scene, with some people calling it rape but I recently found out some people think it was more like a fantasy or dream sequence. It certainly wouldn't be the only one she had so does that seem possible to anyone else

Only reason if could be interpreted as a dream or fantasy is bc it leads right into Buffys dream with Spike in her bed, Katrina etc.

 

[garfan]

Only reason if could be interpreted as a dream or fantasy is bc it leads right into Buffys dream with Spike in her bed, Katrina etc.

I think it's the ethereal music, the dancing below seems kind of slow mo, she's disconnected in a vaguely trance like way, everyone just sort of clears away and Spike pops up out of no where

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I'm not sure I want to touch this one with a ten foot pole, likely because I'll be crucified if I say what I really think, but if the options are between dark sexual fantasy and rape, I'll go with the former. As for the scene being a dream, well, there is no proof of that, despite the following scenes.

However, that's a murky area with Spike and Buffy, and if we take into account how hard to tell in the entire episode what is real and what is not...the scene with them in her bed for instance, where she wakes up and kisses him. Did that happen or not? Many fans would argue Buffy would never risk having Spike in her own bed, while others would argue she trusts him enough to do so, since she clearly trusts him enough to be vulnerable with him.

 

[CardboardGhost]

I never saw this as a dream sequence. I don't think there's a reason to. This scene feels somewhat disconnected, but I interpreted that as Buffy trying to zone out from what is happening to her and the cinematography trying to evoke that feeling. She's not fully present in this moment.

I definitely don't think this would be a fantasy from Buffy's perspective. At least not fully. I think the idea of deniability, of thinking of sex with Spike as something that happens to her rather than with her, is probably pretty appealing (she asks Tara "why do I let him do those things to me," emphasis added), but I don't think her fantasies surrounding this topic would be so literal as to be a rape scene. But when writing for an audience who are supposed to find this back-and-forth violent tension between Spike and Buffy to be sexy, then the writers have an incentive to present sexual violence like this not as a breach of consent and autonomy but rather as something erotically taboo, sex that they are "getting away with" in public, the kind of sex a good girl like Buffy is not supposed to want but gets to have anyway. And I doubt the writers were thinking of it this directly; I genuinely doubt that they viewed this scene as rape at all. I think that the writers did not understand the severity of Spuffy's problems and could not treat a lot of them with the seriousness they deserve.

So my final answer is that it is a rape scene with elements that lead me to think that the creative team wanted it to seem titillating to an audience--and I think the effectiveness of it is incredibly low due to a few things, the biggest one being how Seeing Red retroactively diminishes the narrative significance or severity of literally all of the sexual violence that happens prior. When Spike violates Buffy's consent in Dead Things, it's supposed to be kind of erotic and is never named as rape, but when he tries to rape her in Seeing Red, it is treated like his lowest possible moment and we continue to talk about how bad this way into the next season. The inconsistency, in my opinion, makes it impossible to treat a lot of Spuffy scenes in S6 as a serious narrative about sexual violence or a fantasy; it's pretty hard to do both without trivializing the topic.

it was in no way a rape scene! Buffy could’ve thrown him off the balcony at any moment.

Whether or not she could stop him doesn't actually determine whether or not it was rape. How she could react doesn't have any effect on what Spike is actually doing.

When Buffy tells him to stop and he says make me- again she could stop him 100% if she wanted but he knows she wants it too.

In the context of fiction and sexual fantasy, sure, I would (and do) accept this interpretation of the events. So much of how Buffy interacts with Spike is determined by her very conflicted feelings about him, and I can believe that she would "let" him do this to her as a way of not having to actually admit what she wants (and also possibly punish herself for wanting this in the first place). I would assume this is also the intention of the writing team, otherwise this scene would have been acknowledged more directly as violence.

However, to look at this scene from a more literal lens, it's a scene with one party doing sex acts to someone who has explicitly told him to stop. Whether or not she wants it doesn't change that she said no, and Spike is making a huge assumption by relying on his firmly held belief that Buffy is 100% in love with him and refusing to admit it. He doesn't actually know what she's thinking, but he thinks he does, and he uses that as justification to do literally anything he can to try to get her to "admit" it. This behavior leads directly into SR.

remember she was taking advantage of him just as much if not more- she said it- im using you.

I do think this is an important aspect of S6 that doesn't get talked about as much, but I don't think it's relevant here other than potentially by reading this scene as Buffy punishing herself by allowing Spike to act. In which case, it's still an example of something bad happening to Buffy; if Buffy is genuinely choosing not to stop Spike, then she is doing so at her own expense. Spike is not being harmed here. And, generally, Spike usually seems pretty aware that Buffy is using sex with him as an outlet for her other problems and he has no problem with that, because he gets sex with Buffy out of it.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

What I saw of this "sex" scene was halfway between Spike and Buffy dancing lambada and a dog humping her leg. It seemed like suggestion, the way dancing is the vertical expression of a horizontal desire. Buffy's isolation and her feeling that everyone else on the ground floor is separate from her is not Spike's doing, Buffy is the one who prefers isolation. She knows she can't talk about the pain of being pulled out of heaven with the people who did that to her, but Spike is always ready to listen. Buffy doesn't even show that she forgives Willow for bringing her back until "Gone" and "Gone" is the last episode where we see the original computer nerd Willow.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Love is fickle, indifferent. I see no issue with Buffy wanting Spike, hating Spike, and hating herself for wanting Spike.

 

[SavvyScoobie]

I don't think it's a dream sequence. But I also don't think it's rape because as far as I know they didn't go that far. As far as I know, because I don't analyze sex positions; I think Spike just touched her with his hands.

Do I think it's a toxic very 'rapey' scene? 100%

She says stop, she seems unsure, any decent person would stop. I also will admit that this relationship in general is very toxic. How Spike treats Buffy is horrible and how Buffy treats Spike is horrible. But hey considering these characters and what they've been through I feel like this makes sense. Not gonna compare and say that one treated the other worse, because everything about it is destructive. Also I don't feel like doing a thorough dissect.

But I also think it's a well done scene, because it makes me feel. I feel disgust, sympathy, etc.

I feel as miserable as Buffy, watching her friends be happy while she's with the only person she thinks understands her. She's in the shadows with Spike, because after her death she feels like darkness is the best company. All she's been feeling is horny and sad. It's a hard watch.

It's very clear these writers are horrendous at writing relationships, because this is not hot. I didn't find this sexy, I found this depressing.

Not necessarily rape, but also in no way is it healthy and consenting.

 

[hoponlilmama]

This is a controversial scene, with some people calling it rape but I recently found out some people think it was more like a fantasy or dream sequence.

It definitely isn't. The evidence of this comes in s7 when Spike returns and taunts Buffy about, "another round on the balcony".

I wonder who are the fans who view it from a 'fantasy' perspective? Spuffy fans? Because it makes it easier to tolerate that scene after ol' William treats her like crap?

It certainly wouldn't be the only one she had so does that seem possible to anyone else

Nope!

Oh here we go. I am all for analyzing and looking deeply into things (especially BtVS) but it was in no way a rape scene! Buffy could’ve thrown him off the balcony at any moment. And we already have a rape scene in seeing red soo let’s not.

It can definitely be seen as a rape scene. He comes up behind her and starts taunting her.
She says, "don't" (and it's heartbreaking how weakly she says it) and then he says "stop me" and penetrates her without a second thought - pay attention to Buffy's face as she shudders because she's about to cry. It's gross.

When Buffy tells him to stop and he says make me- again she could stop him 100% if she wanted but he knows she wants it too.

You know very well that Buffy has the physical strength to throw Spike off her. The point here of the scene is Buffy being at her lowest. Mentally she does not have the strength and she's spiralling. The previous scene shows us she's still feeling dead and disconnected from the world with her fake smile and unable to relate to her friends. Spike has just taken advantage of her with his verbal taunts.

Spike knows she's weak and won't fight back. Fast forward to SR when she's broken things off with him, and has started to turn a corner. When Spike again attacks her and tries to rape her, this time he fails because mentally she's stronger (though physically weaker).

By the way, aside from feeling sorry for the actors having to act that out, I have to laugh at the logistics. We went from 'the zipper heard around the world' in Smashed to nothing. Did Spike head up on the balcony already unzipped and with his gear out?

Also, how convenient that no one's on the balcony!

 

[NotASlayer]

There is a serious issue with saying that a woman "could" stop herself from being raped. It shifts the entire blame of rape onto the victim; if a woman is raped, then it is her fault for allowing herself to be raped. That it isn't rape if a woman doesn't stop it. This is the sort of argument that rapists use to defend their actions. "It's not my fault, she clearly wanted it." If a woman (or a man for that matter) says no, or otherwise revokes her consent, it is NOT up to her to then have to physically try to stop it. It should automatically make the other person stop and check before going on. If the other doesn't stop, it is rape. Saying that physical action is a requirement of showing you don't want to be raped is wrong.

 

[November]

It'd be such a turn off to have to sign a contract of consent everytime you have sex with someone you've been having a lot of sex with. The rules of consent are different in active sexual relationships. Consent is implied, especially after the first dozen times. Its not always verbal. Body language, breath, shivering, positioning, can all be screaming yes. A relationship, sexual or otherwise that completely disregards body language isn't real life - that only exists online.

Buffy sought out the shadows, she went to be alone. Buffy can "be alone" with Spike. Spike is the shadows. Buffys "dont" was much like me saying I dont want chocolate, but when its right there, I'll take it. I shouldnt, but I will.

It wasn't rape. It was a powerful scene, look how polarising it is, even now. It summed up, exactly, the confusion of feelings over facts. Super relatable for a chick of that age and life stage. It didn't read as fantasy, but as deep internal conflict. Wanting what one shouldn't, enjoying what is bad for you, watching the world go by when you fell off the path into the dark.

 

[NotASlayer]

Consent is implied - unless it is revoked. Yes, if Buffy hadn't objected, it would be a different matter. But she revoked her consent. No, or the equivalent, means no. If consent is always implied, that means once a relationship has become sexual, consent always exists. Which is not true. Spike should have paused and checked, especially as Buffy was clearly not happy with the situation. He didn't. This was not sexy fun naughtiness; this was proceeding after the partner has made it clear they are unhappy. Buffy was doing something she did not want to do and she is very clearly depicted as not enjoying it in the slightest. It is why it is possible for a long-term relationship to still result in rape, why being married to someone does not mean you can never rape them.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

As far as I know, because I don't analyze sex positions; I think Spike just touched her with his hands.

This is an interesting take, because, as far as I know, it's generally pretty much agreed upon within the fandom that he's penetrating her in this scene.

But I also think it's a well done scene, because it makes me feel. I feel disgust, sympathy, etc.

Right. They did a great job at making that scene so uncomfortable and not sexy at all.

I feel as miserable as Buffy, watching her friends be happy while she's with the only person she thinks understands her. She's in the shadows with Spike, because after her death she feels like darkness is the best company. All she's been feeling is horny and sad. It's a hard watch.

It's very clear these writers are horrendous at writing relationships, because this is not hot. I didn't find this sexy, I found this depressing.

100 percent agree

Post automatically merged: Mar 30, 2026

It definitely isn't. The evidence of this comes in s7 when Spike returns and taunts Buffy about, "another round on the balcony".

Wow, I totally forgot about that!

I wonder who are the fans who view it from a 'fantasy' perspective? Spuffy fans? Because it makes it easier to tolerate that scene after ol' William treats her like crap?

Die-hard Spuffy here, and even I admit that scene is all sorts of cringe and makes me really uncomfortable.

By the way, aside from feeling sorry for the actors having to act that out, I have to laugh at the logistics. We went from 'the zipper heard around the world' in Smashed to nothing. Did Spike head up on the balcony already unzipped and with his gear out?

Somehow I think Spike is always "ready to go..."

Isn't there some reference somewhere where he says he never wears underwear?

Also, how convenient that no one's on the balcony!

Oh, how we must suspend our disbelief so much in this series...

Post automatically merged: Mar 30, 2026

There is a serious issue with saying that a woman "could" stop herself from being raped...

You're absolutely right - in real life. But in the context of this series, Buffy is a Slayer, and is stronger, or at the least, equally matched with Spike in strength, so it's implied and expected that if she wanted to, she would have stopped it.

 

[SavvyScoobie]

You're absolutely right - in real life. But in the context of this series, Buffy is a Slayer, and is stronger, or at the least, equally matched with Spike in strength, so it's implied and expected that if she wanted to, she would have stopped it.

I think my girl was too depressed to even eat properly, let alone kick Spike off her. It's an easy thing to fight vamps and monsters, but pushing Spike off is also about Buffy's emotions. This scene took an emotional toll on her I can tell and I think, and possibly even a toll on SMG. She's the slayer but she's also really struggling at this point, and I doubt she's been taught much about healthy relationships and consent. Buffy would have to collect herself mentally to push Spike off; it's no easy ordeal.

 

[NotASlayer]

Isn't there some reference somewhere where he says he never wears underwear?

I have a feeling it is in Doomed when he accidentally trashes his wardrobe. Xander's shirts do not suit him.

You're absolutely right - in real life. But in the context of this series, Buffy is a Slayer, and is stronger, or at the least, equally matched with Spike in strength, so it's implied and expected that if she wanted to, she would have stopped it.

The problem is that this still shifts the blame to the victim; "She could have have potentially stopped the rape because of X; because she didn't, it's not rape."

Consider a non-fantastical example. A woman is with her partner, she says she doesn't want to and he does anyway, despite her giving clear indication she doesn't enjoy it. Within reach, she has a gun or a knife, both of which have the potential to stop the rape. She doesn't use them. Does her not using the means she had to, potentially, stop this mean it isn't rape?

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

The problem is that this still shifts the blame to the victim; "She could have have potentially stopped the rape because of X; because she didn't, it's not rape."

Consider a non-fantastical example. A woman is with her partner, she says she doesn't want to and he does anyway, despite her giving clear indication she doesn't enjoy it. Within reach, she has a gun or a knife, both of which have the potential to stop the rape. She doesn't use them. Does her not using the means she had to, potentially, stop this mean it isn't rape?

Any fan has the right to interpret that scene as rape, I just personally do not. The scene in "Seeing Red?" Definitely attempted rape. I just don't agree that this scene is such.

Of course I agree we wouldn't blame victims if they get raped, and of course it's still rape if the women does not give consent, even if she doesn't try to stop it beyond that.

 

[November]

Sure, people who are sexually inexperienced or young adults, consent all the way, enthusiastic engaged constant consent.

Being 20+ and sex is as natural as any other physical contact between a pair, its a different story. Its not the same, like schooling vs real life, it plays out differently.

Thats could form part of the conflict in this scene for Buffy - that she wants it, but knows she shouldn't. She doesn't keep a tight rein on herself this season, and enjoys losing a bit of control, stepping into the forbidden. Its all part of the theme of the season. Its not the same as rape.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Also, Spike's main squeeze for a century was Drusilla, whose personality constantly switches between a frightened teenager regressing to childhood and a cruel demon capable of terrible feats. It's probably best to "power through" when dealing with her, and ignore the appeals to heaven and Miss Edith.