Was 'Amends' The best episode ever of Buffy?

[AlphaFoxtrot]

In Joyce's defense, it's been a hard couple of years for her. Her marriage fell apart, she moved, her standard of living has diminished, her daughter went to juvenile hall and was expelled. Her pulpy brain can't begin to imagine what she is in the middle of, and she is trying to start a new life and business in a new town. Buffy is also lying to her the entire time.

Second, Joyce is just as shallow as Hank is and Buffy was. If you say the movie or read the origins, you know this. I would say she eventually figures out her daughter, but she does have her own issues to deal with.

 

[thetopher]

You're arguing that it doesn't mirror a real life manipulation tactic by listing all the reasons it's not literally that tactic. I don't think that's a good argument. This scene has an older man planning to kill himself, his younger ex trying to talk him out of it, and this moment being followed up by a sweet moment with romantic undertones. Someone has compared it to an abusive partner threatening suicide as a manipulation tactic

Firstly, I asked because I genuinely didn't understand the term 'mirroring' in this context, so I asked a question, didn't get an answer so I tried to break down the actual events of the episode from the perspective of somebody who both doesn't care for the Bangel relationship but also doesn't loathe Angel and call him a manipulative/toxic/groomer/rapist or whatever.

Secondly the interpretation you state seems so vague and out-of-context as to be kind of unfair. At base we should take the characters at being sincere unless something about their character indicates otherwise.
For example; Buffy cries in anguish as she attempts to get Angel do to what she wants, in another context couldn't that could be seen as manipulative and toxic? She is trying to influence him with her tears, wow, that could be seen as problematic.

See, if I take them both as sincere then the scene is fine but we can say 'well, in another context this mirrors coercive behavior'. Okay, but context is key in most situations and this is no different so I don't think its a very good argument, sorry.

Does she really do that with Buffy?

What can I tell you, they're a Sailor Moon enjoyer, the anime that has a relationship between a 14 yrs old girl and an 18 yr old guy, I ain't gonna take morality lessons on fictional relationships from them.

And yes, they excuse Buffy's behavior in S6 even though, by their own 'strip out the metaphor' reading, she does 'the bad thing' (I'm not trying to spoil anything for others on the thread) and should be condemned by that standard.

 

[spikenbuffy]

When I was younger many episodes with flashbacks were boring to me (this, Selfless (shame on me), the one when Kate's dad get killed in ATS). So this ep were boring to me and I wasn't a big Angel fan, still am not compared to others in the fandom when he's a number one favorite. So it's not the best ever Buffy episode to me.
But I've grown to love more flashbacks episodes. Xander is nice in this as he helps Buffy after being a jerk about Angel. Nice feel good ending. Think Ive put it as one of my favorite episodes of S3 but S3 is just great as its episodes are so good with great character moments.

 

[burrunjor]

I like some aspects of the episode, but overall I don’t think it’s the BEST.

I would reserve that for Surprise/Innocence, Passion, Blood Ties, or The Gift. Each of those episodes balance important aspects of the show—drama, comedy, the supernatural, and the relationships of the main characters.

Amends as an Angel-centric Buffy episode worked in diving into his past, and playing with the themes of the season. But the First as introduced here was weak. The mythology was primarily changed upon its return in season 7. And the idea of Angel wanting to commit suicide due to Angelus’ actions doesn’t really make sense to me. We’ve established they are two separate characters, and so while I understand Angel’s desire to atone for Angelus’ deeds while the demon inhabited his body, I think it’s a bit Of a reach for the “going out at sunrise” part of this episode. However, plot wise I understand the significance of him being saved by a Higher Power, and I agree with others that it seems to work more as a prequel to Angel’s own show.

I don’t think it really showcases the best of Buffy as a show and concept though.

Agreed about Passion. Glad to meet another person that rates it as the best. Surprised that most people don't though it is popular at least.

I do love Amends and Robia La Morte is sensational as The First. Like Jared Padelick as Lucifer in Supernatural, she may have only got to play it once or twice, but you still think of her more than anyone else in that role.