Why people hate Xander?

I stoped watching when it said that everyone else has character development except Xander. No, everyone has dramatic arcs compared to Xander but he was wonderful subtle character development. By the end of the series he’s the only one who actually seems like a real adult. Does he still have work to do? Yup but overall he’s a solid, well rounded character, and a good dependable friend.
 
KaitKat said:
I stoped watching when it said that everyone else has character development except Xander. No, everyone has dramatic arcs compared to Xander but he was wonderful subtle character development. By the end of the series he’s the only one who actually seems like a real adult. Does he still have work to do? Yup but overall he’s a solid, well rounded character, and a good dependable friend.
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I do like the 'subtle rounded character development', but my main issue is Xander's trauma. The show just pretends it doesn't exist. No wonder he doesn't care about his friend's trauma, nobody cares about his either!

I went from hating Xander, to just pitying him.
 
It was pretty sad in Amends when everyone let him sleep outside because he doesn’t want to deal with his drunk abusive relatives. I do think he cares about his friends’ trauma he just has never had any examples of functioning emotionally healthy adults so he doesn’t have the tools to help himself or others. They absolutely should have given his trauma and poor coping mechanisms more screen time, he didn’t even get to talk to Jesse in Conversations With Dead People but it is what it is.
 
SavvyZ said:
I do like the 'subtle rounded character development', but my main issue is Xander's trauma. The show just pretends it doesn't exist. No wonder he doesn't care about his friend's trauma, nobody cares about his either!

I went from hating Xander, to just pitying him.
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All things considering, it is pretty strange to think of how flippant the show is about Xander’s background and trauma. Why even introduce it if you’re barely gonna use it, y’know?
 
Taake said:
All things considering, it is pretty strange to think of how flippant the show is about Xander’s background and trauma. Why even introduce it if you’re barely gonna use it, y’know?
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I think it’s a case of the show giving too much credit to the audience. They didn’t think they would have to spoon feed why Xander hated Angel and they thought that they showed just enough about his home life to let us understand Xander and get how remarkable it is that he overcame an environment of abusive drunks to be a productive member of society and all around good person. I don’t think they even thought of he was a good person who was flawed or just outright bad person would even be a debate.
 
KaitKat said:
I think it’s a case of the show giving too much credit to the audience. They didn’t think they would have to spoon feed why Xander hated Angel and they thought that they showed just enough about his home life to let us understand Xander and get how remarkable it is that he overcame an environment of abusive drunks to be a productive member of society and all around good person. I don’t think they even thought of he was a good person who was flawed or just outright bad person would even be a debate.
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No I think the show was lazy and never took SA and rape seriously.

Also even in situations where Xander was clearly wrong they didn't hold him accountable. When he cheated on Cordelia he learned nothing and continued being snarky and making jokes at her expense. On the other hand, Willow (who cheated on Oz), clearly felt bad for what she did and earned Oz's forgiveness.

I don't care if he's in high school, why the hell is Willow the only one who had to mature? The show doesn't even care about its creators self insert. Its kinda...sad honestly?

The show never cared about Xander's trauma or his growth, because we're supposed to believe he just magically overcame what Faith did to him and suck it up? I don't hate Xander like a lot of people do, again I just pity him and his storyline.

I also think the reason why people hate Xander and don't understand the nuance of the character is because of the 'nice guy' trope. People are tired of dealing with misogynists in real life, so why in fiction too? I've seen a lot of people online hate him for his insensitive jokes, crush on Buffy, etc. Which I won't comment on, because I didn't care to pay attention to his scenes and see if he actually was more misogynistic or misunderstood.

I pity him but I also found him annoying especially in the early seasons. I just hate when Faith assaulted him, gosh it's heartbreaking.
 
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SavvyZ said:
No I think the show was lazy and never took SA and rape seriously.

Also even in situations where Xander was clearly wrong they didn't hold him accountable. When he cheated on Cordelia he learned nothing and continued being snarky and making jokes at her expense. On the other hand, Willow (who cheated on Oz), clearly felt bad for what she did and earned Oz's forgiveness.

I don't care if he's in high school, why the hell is Willow the only one who had to mature? The show doesn't even care about its creators self insert. Its kinda...sad honestly?

The show never cared about Xander's trauma or his growth, because we're supposed to believe he just magically overcame what Faith did to him and suck it up? I don't hate Xander like a lot of people do, again I just pity him and his storyline.

I also think the reason why people hate Xander and don't understand the nuance of the character is because of the 'nice guy' trope. People are tired of dealing with misogynists in real life, so why in fiction too? I've seen a lot of people online hate him for his insensitive jokes, crush on Buffy, etc. Which I won't comment on, because I didn't care to pay attention to his scenes and see if he actually was more misogynistic or misunderstood.

I pity him but I also found him annoying especially in the early seasons. I just hate when Faith assaulted him, gosh it's heartbreaking.
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Xander made snarky comments at her because she did at him. He hurt her, yes. But allowing her to hurt him back without a word does nothing

Of course, I don't get the people who act like Xander never felt bad. She rejected his attempts to make things right. From there, what does just accepting things do?
 
Okay so there’s a lot to unpack here.

SavvyZ said:
When he cheated on Cordelia he learned nothing and continued being snarky and making jokes at her expense. On the other hand, Willow (who cheated on Oz), clearly felt bad for what she did and earned Oz's forgiveness.
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I don’t defend Xander cheating on Cordelia and being snarky afterwards. He absolutely should have ignored her comments after everything he just put her through. He does learn this lesson after The Zeppo but still. With that said Willow is not a paragon of morality. Oz himself said that she wanted his forgiveness to make herself feel better and that her apology was about her not him. Her eventually earning his forgiveness doesn’t make her more moral, especially because she was a terrible partner to all three of her partners if you’re counting the comics.
SavvyZ said:
I don't care if he's in high school, why the hell is Willow the only one who had to mature? The show doesn't even care about its creators self insert. It’s kinda...sad honestly?
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Willow isn’t more mature than Xander but she is a lot less abrasive. Xander is not Joss Whedon’s self insert more than any other character on the show and honestly that criticism is getting kind of tired. His “growth” is realizing that validation and self worth were internal. At the end of The Zeppo he doesn’t engage with Cordelia and is happy because he knows what he is capable of. He doesn’t ever cheat again although I would argue that his relationship with Anya was toxic.
SavvyZ said:
The show never cared about Xander's trauma or his growth, because we're supposed to believe he just magically overcame what Faith did to him and suck it up?
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None of the SA on this show is handled with care and that is a fair criticism.
SavvyZ said:
also think the reason why people hate Xander and don't understand the nuance of the character is because of the 'nice guy' trope. People are tired of dealing with misogynists in real life, so why in fiction too?
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I don’t really think Xander displays nice guy behavior outside of a couple of early episodes nor would I call him a misogynist. I am however aware I won’t change people’s opinions on that.
 
KaitKat said:
Okay so there’s a lot to unpack here.


I don’t defend Xander cheating on Cordelia and being snarky afterwards. He absolutely should have ignored her comments after everything he just put her through. He does learn this lesson after The Zeppo but still. With that said Willow is not a paragon of morality. Oz himself said that she wanted his forgiveness to make herself feel better and that her apology was about her not him. Her eventually earning his forgiveness doesn’t make her more moral, especially because she was a terrible partner to all three of her partners if you’re counting the comics.

Willow isn’t more mature than Xander but she is a lot less abrasive. Xander is not Joss Whedon’s self insert more than any other character on the show and honestly that criticism is getting kind of tired. His “growth” is realizing that validation and self worth were internal. At the end of The Zeppo he doesn’t engage with Cordelia and is happy because he knows what he is capable of. He doesn’t ever cheat again although I would argue that his relationship with Anya was toxic.

None of the SA on this show is handled with care and that is a fair criticism.

I don’t really think Xander displays nice guy behavior outside of a couple of early episodes nor would I call him a misogynist. I am however aware I won’t change people’s opinions on that.
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Willow is a horrible partner, but I mean in the context of the cheating thing she actually recognizes what she did wrong, feels shitty about it, and earns Oz's forgiveness. Willow is not moral (like when she mind zapped Tara and basically raped her). So I realize that every pretty much character is a Joss Whedon self insert, you made a good point! Xander just realizes how insecure he was before The Zeppo and changes, but I don't think he actually did any to rectify his cheating. He just stops making the 'woe is me' jokes, but reverts back to his old self shortly after (not much character development). Again I really don't care for his bland storyline.

Xander is more of this 'nice guy' in the early seasons when he bitches about Buffy rejecting him and how he'd have to be 'toxic and undead' for her to be with him. Later on he gets over it, but I felt really annoyed at early season Xander. A lot of the jokes he made were at the expense of others, and a lot were just calling Cordelia a slut. I don't remember a specific one but he did say something really gross at the Bronze about Cordelia (to her face as well).

One of my main issues is when Xander does the spell to make every girl fall in love with him, literally nobody cares after. Giles scolds him once and Buffy even thanks him for not taking advantage of her. Gross!

Over time (as we find out more about him), I realized he's just traumatized and desperately needs therapy.
 
The whole 'Joss self insert' wave has somehow turned into a tsunami, and I think the hatred he gets isn't justified. Xander's not perfect, and he's made mistakes. Show me a character in the series who is 100% completely and totally perfect? You won't find one.
 
garfan said:
Xander made snarky comments at her because she did at him. He hurt her, yes. But allowing her to hurt him back without a word does nothing

Of course, I don't get the people who act like Xander never felt bad. She rejected his attempts to make things right. From there, what does just accepting
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Both early season Xander & Cordelia sucked.
thetopher said:
Xander is not 'hot' and has no superpowers so he is now 'problematic' to the fanbase.
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You might hate me for this, but I found him super boring. I tend to watch CW shows so I'm just used to the hot-guy-superhero stuff. I don't hate him he's just...meh.
I've seen people who hate Xander call him an 'incel' and stuff. Sure, but he wasn't celibate and actually managed to pull girls.
 
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SavvyZ said:
You might hate me for this, but I found him super boring
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No, that's an understandable reaction. Honestly Xander was never my favorite, and I get why some find him boring or irritating, but I never got the passionate hate for the guy except for many superficial reasons. Generally speaking he doesn't deserve it.

But - sorrY- I also find him miles better than all the 'non-superpowered sidekicks' in those CW shows; Pete Ross from Smallville or nerdy guy from Supergirl. Those 'the superpowered main character's male best friend' all suck compared to Xander. Probably because Xander has his own 'growing up' arc which is informed by Buffy but isn't about Buffy, if that makes sense.

SavvyZ said:
I've seen people who hate Xander call him an 'incel' and stuff.
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'Incel' is now a catch-all dismissive insult for male nerds, like 'virgin' was in the 90's. As it was then so it is now the same types of people are hurling the insult as well, its uncanny.
 
Who do some fans dislike any of the characters? Prejudice based on their behavior towards other characters usually.

For instance, I can't stand Angel, because of what he has done.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
Who do some fans dislike any of the characters? Prejudice based on their behavior towards other characters usually.

For instance, I can't stand Angel, because of what he has done.
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What has Angel done? I'm not like an Angel superfan or anything just curious as to others opinions. He's so overly broody in my opinion.
 
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