SavvyScoobie
PrincessCordy
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2026
- Messages
- 268
I do like the 'subtle rounded character development', but my main issue is Xander's trauma. The show just pretends it doesn't exist. No wonder he doesn't care about his friend's trauma, nobody cares about his either!I stoped watching when it said that everyone else has character development except Xander. No, everyone has dramatic arcs compared to Xander but he was wonderful subtle character development. By the end of the series he’s the only one who actually seems like a real adult. Does he still have work to do? Yup but overall he’s a solid, well rounded character, and a good dependable friend.
I do like the 'subtle rounded character development', but my main issue is Xander's trauma. The show just pretends it doesn't exist. No wonder he doesn't care about his friend's trauma, nobody cares about his either!
I went from hating Xander, to just pitying him.
I think it’s a case of the show giving too much credit to the audience. They didn’t think they would have to spoon feed why Xander hated Angel and they thought that they showed just enough about his home life to let us understand Xander and get how remarkable it is that he overcame an environment of abusive drunks to be a productive member of society and all around good person. I don’t think they even thought of he was a good person who was flawed or just outright bad person would even be a debate.All things considering, it is pretty strange to think of how flippant the show is about Xander’s background and trauma. Why even introduce it if you’re barely gonna use it, y’know?
No I think the show was lazy and never took SA and rape seriously.I think it’s a case of the show giving too much credit to the audience. They didn’t think they would have to spoon feed why Xander hated Angel and they thought that they showed just enough about his home life to let us understand Xander and get how remarkable it is that he overcame an environment of abusive drunks to be a productive member of society and all around good person. I don’t think they even thought of he was a good person who was flawed or just outright bad person would even be a debate.
No I think the show was lazy and never took SA and rape seriously.
Also even in situations where Xander was clearly wrong they didn't hold him accountable. When he cheated on Cordelia he learned nothing and continued being snarky and making jokes at her expense. On the other hand, Willow (who cheated on Oz), clearly felt bad for what she did and earned Oz's forgiveness.
I don't care if he's in high school, why the hell is Willow the only one who had to mature? The show doesn't even care about its creators self insert. Its kinda...sad honestly?
The show never cared about Xander's trauma or his growth, because we're supposed to believe he just magically overcame what Faith did to him and suck it up? I don't hate Xander like a lot of people do, again I just pity him and his storyline.
I also think the reason why people hate Xander and don't understand the nuance of the character is because of the 'nice guy' trope. People are tired of dealing with misogynists in real life, so why in fiction too? I've seen a lot of people online hate him for his insensitive jokes, crush on Buffy, etc. Which I won't comment on, because I didn't care to pay attention to his scenes and see if he actually was more misogynistic or misunderstood.
I pity him but I also found him annoying especially in the early seasons. I just hate when Faith assaulted him, gosh it's heartbreaking.
I don’t defend Xander cheating on Cordelia and being snarky afterwards. He absolutely should have ignored her comments after everything he just put her through. He does learn this lesson after The Zeppo but still. With that said Willow is not a paragon of morality. Oz himself said that she wanted his forgiveness to make herself feel better and that her apology was about her not him. Her eventually earning his forgiveness doesn’t make her more moral, especially because she was a terrible partner to all three of her partners if you’re counting the comics.When he cheated on Cordelia he learned nothing and continued being snarky and making jokes at her expense. On the other hand, Willow (who cheated on Oz), clearly felt bad for what she did and earned Oz's forgiveness.
Willow isn’t more mature than Xander but she is a lot less abrasive. Xander is not Joss Whedon’s self insert more than any other character on the show and honestly that criticism is getting kind of tired. His “growth” is realizing that validation and self worth were internal. At the end of The Zeppo he doesn’t engage with Cordelia and is happy because he knows what he is capable of. He doesn’t ever cheat again although I would argue that his relationship with Anya was toxic.I don't care if he's in high school, why the hell is Willow the only one who had to mature? The show doesn't even care about its creators self insert. It’s kinda...sad honestly?
None of the SA on this show is handled with care and that is a fair criticism.The show never cared about Xander's trauma or his growth, because we're supposed to believe he just magically overcame what Faith did to him and suck it up?
I don’t really think Xander displays nice guy behavior outside of a couple of early episodes nor would I call him a misogynist. I am however aware I won’t change people’s opinions on that.also think the reason why people hate Xander and don't understand the nuance of the character is because of the 'nice guy' trope. People are tired of dealing with misogynists in real life, so why in fiction too?
Willow is a horrible partner, but I mean in the context of the cheating thing she actually recognizes what she did wrong, feels shitty about it, and earns Oz's forgiveness. Willow is not moral (like when she mind zapped Tara and basically raped her). So I realize that every pretty much character is a Joss Whedon self insert, you made a good point! Xander just realizes how insecure he was before The Zeppo and changes, but I don't think he actually did any to rectify his cheating. He just stops making the 'woe is me' jokes, but reverts back to his old self shortly after (not much character development). Again I really don't care for his bland storyline.Okay so there’s a lot to unpack here.
I don’t defend Xander cheating on Cordelia and being snarky afterwards. He absolutely should have ignored her comments after everything he just put her through. He does learn this lesson after The Zeppo but still. With that said Willow is not a paragon of morality. Oz himself said that she wanted his forgiveness to make herself feel better and that her apology was about her not him. Her eventually earning his forgiveness doesn’t make her more moral, especially because she was a terrible partner to all three of her partners if you’re counting the comics.
Willow isn’t more mature than Xander but she is a lot less abrasive. Xander is not Joss Whedon’s self insert more than any other character on the show and honestly that criticism is getting kind of tired. His “growth” is realizing that validation and self worth were internal. At the end of The Zeppo he doesn’t engage with Cordelia and is happy because he knows what he is capable of. He doesn’t ever cheat again although I would argue that his relationship with Anya was toxic.
None of the SA on this show is handled with care and that is a fair criticism.
I don’t really think Xander displays nice guy behavior outside of a couple of early episodes nor would I call him a misogynist. I am however aware I won’t change people’s opinions on that.
Both early season Xander & Cordelia sucked.Xander made snarky comments at her because she did at him. He hurt her, yes. But allowing her to hurt him back without a word does nothing
Of course, I don't get the people who act like Xander never felt bad. She rejected his attempts to make things right. From there, what does just accepting
You might hate me for this, but I found him super boring. I tend to watch CW shows so I'm just used to the hot-guy-superhero stuff. I don't hate him he's just...meh.Xander is not 'hot' and has no superpowers so he is now 'problematic' to the fanbase.
You might hate me for this, but I found him super boring
I've seen people who hate Xander call him an 'incel' and stuff.
What has Angel done? I'm not like an Angel superfan or anything just curious as to others opinions. He's so overly broody in my opinion.Who do some fans dislike any of the characters? Prejudice based on their behavior towards other characters usually.
For instance, I can't stand Angel, because of what he has done.
Have you read S8? If not, do you plan to? I don't want to spoil it for you.What has Angel done? I'm not like an Angel superfan or anything just curious as to others opinions. He's so overly broody in my opinion.
Not yet, but I want to experience the horror without spoilers.Have you read S8? If not, do you plan to? I don't want to spoil it for you.
I can't really without spoiling it...Could you give me a small hint as to what he does?